From ... From: Erik Naggum Subject: Re: COMPLEMENT and -IF-NOT functions Date: 1998/01/29 Message-ID: <3095034865019317@naggum.no> X-Deja-AN: 320163420 References: <3094693129413453@naggum.no> <3094920521318311@naggum.no> <6amu43$tm8$2@serra.unipi.it> <3094998414487754@naggum.no> mail-copies-to: never Organization: Naggum Software; +47 8800 8879; http://www.naggum.no Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp * Barry Margolin | Almost no one has a copy of the FS (F* Standard). OK, so my attempted joke fell utterly on its face. the point was really no more than to show that by using a silly abbreviation (nobody used "FM" for "F*cking Manual" before Pierpaolo Bernardi did) while getting on his high horse and engaging in hand-waving over the _entire_ standard, he communicated arrogance and uselessness in an unfunny way. I tried to communicate arrogance and uselessness in a funny way, while including a Clinton clause with which I could show that I had given a very precise reference, should that be needed, or really hadn't given a reference at all, should that be needed. oh, well. sorry for wasting people's time. however, to the issue at hand: I believe there's a different issue at work than the one that appears to be the focal point. Pierpaolo appears to believe that Common Lisp requires functions to honor a contract that says "unless you _know_ what will happen to a binding that you declare DYNAMIC-EXTENT, you cannot use that declaration" _and_ that his contract has indefinite extent, as it were: that any violation anywhere will render a program non-conforming and that the behavior is therefore undefined. I contend that the latter part of this is not only silly, it's counter-productive in the extreme and renders DYNAMIC-EXTENT worthless, because it is _impossible_ to know how any function uses its arguments unless it is part of that function's contract (like the symbol name argument to INTERN, or the key to a hash function, which is subect to a whole separate clause, 18.1.2). whenever a function may destructively modify an argument, it has to say so in its specification, and we may safely assume that unless such is part of its specification, it does not destructively modify an argument. likewise, when the exported behavior requires the caller to refrain from destructively modifying an object passed as argument, that must be part of the specification. however, there is no such requirement on functions to document their _internal_ use of their arguments. if a function needs an object passed as an argument to remain the same for the rest of its lifetime (such as when memoizing) it can just _copy_ the object, in preference to imposing a "don't touch this" rule on all its callers in _violation_ of the contract. there are a few exceptions to this rule; INTERN, in particular¹. in the context of COMPLEMENT, we are _clearly_ talking about predicates, the exported behavior of which is _clearly_ side-effect-free, and their contract _clearly_ precludes imposing a non-destructive policy on any of the arguments they were passed. finally, some quotes and references. as part of the description of APPLY, we find: When the function receives its arguments via &rest, it is permissible (but not required) for the implementation to bind the rest parameter to an object that shares structure with the last argument to apply. Because a function can neither detect whether it was called via apply nor whether (if so) the last argument to apply was a constant, conforming programs must neither rely on the list structure of a rest list to be freshly consed, nor modify that list structure. as part of the description of DYNAMIC-EXTENT, we find: In some containing form, F, this declaration asserts for each vari (which need not be bound by F), and for each value vij that vari takes on, and for each object xijk that is an otherwise inaccessible part of vij at any time when vij becomes the value of vari, that just after the execution of F terminates, xijk is either inaccessible (if F established a binding for vari) or still an otherwise inaccessible part of the current value of vari (if F did not establish a binding for vari). The same relation holds for each fni, except that the bindings are in the function namespace. The compiler is permitted to use this information in any way that is appropriate to the implementation and that does not conflict with the semantics of Common Lisp. in the examples section of DYNAMIC-EXTENT, we find: A variant of this is the so-called ``stack allocated rest list'' that can be achieved (in implementations supporting the optimization) by: (defun f (&rest x) (declare (dynamic-extent x)) ...) Note that although the initial value of x is not explicit, the f function is responsible for assembling the list x from the passed arguments, so the f function can be optimized by the compiler to construct a stack-allocated list instead of a heap-allocated list in implementations that support such. in the discussion of the DYNAMIC-EXTENT issue, we find: KMP: ... it still raises the question of whether we should define per-function for every CL function whether any of the arguments is permitted to be "saved" so that CL programs don't get any funny surprises. If we don't, it ends up being implementor's discretion how to resolve cases ... and everyone might not agree that all cases are ... obvious ... #:Erik ------- ¹ although interns appear to be no exception elsewhere -- I believe in life after Year 2000, four-digit years, and 24-hour clocks. I believe in ISO 8601 as the only external time representation. I believe in a monotonically increasing number of milliseconds as the only internal time representation. I pledge to fight time zones and other time formats. Amen