Subject: Re: Looking for a LISP function or macro ... From: Erik Naggum <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: 1998/09/18 Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Message-ID: <email@example.com> * Barry Margolin <firstname.lastname@example.org> | Use REMOVE-IF and invert the sense of the test (using the COMPLEMENT | function, if necessary). This supercedes the deprecated REMOVE-IF-NOT | function. I find this a conceptually horrible suggestion. REMOVE-IF-NOT is at least possible to deal with as an idiom. REMOVE-IF of the COMPLEMENT of the function I really want in order to _keep_ certain elements is exactly how I would have force people to do things if I were into purity for its own sake and thought utility and pragmatics were stupid concerns. not wanting to deal with the very annoying COMPLEMENT function, I have defined functions COLLECT and RETAIN as the semantic complements of REMOVE and DELETE, with -IF _and_ -IF-NOT variants. (COLLECT is a whole lot different from REMOVE with some keyword arguments, by the way.) (defun collect-if (predicate list &rest keys) "Return a list of each element from LIST that satisfies PREDICATE. Accepts the same keyword arguments as REMOVE-IF." (apply #'remove-if-not predicate list keys)) I see no reason at all to deprecate -IF-NOT. the reason for deprecating :TEST-NOT is in a whole different category, since it is unspecified what :TEST FOO :TEST-NOT BAR should mean, i.e., when specified at the same time, and this problem _does_ come up when applying a function an unknown list of keyword-value pairs. no such thing could ever happen to -IF-NOT functions, yet it is apparent from the write-ups that -IF-NOT only got deprecated out of some misguided sense of symmetry with :TEST-NOT. incidentally, the above function can be written with REMOVE-IF and the annoying COMPLEMENT function if one is so inclined. in any case, I think that if you think you need COMPLEMENT, you should define a new function that conveys the new purpose, and use that instead. it may well use COMPLEMENT internally. whether the new function is the test function or the caller of the test function depends on the purpose. the same goes for the all the other function-building functions that Dylan has and which it's sort of fun to play with, but which I think should not be used as open-coded idioms -- better to use them in implementations of something that reflects how you think. #:Erik -- ATTENTION, all abducting aliens! you DON'T need to RETURN them!