Subject: Re: A challenge to the pundits (Re: Barriers to Lisp acceptance - a "survey" question)
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 1999/03/07
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* "Howard R. Stearns" <>
| Here's a challenge to anyone who takes issue with how they perceive all
| or some Lisp vendors to operate:
| Come up with a business plan you like that you are willing to bet real
| money on.

* Francois-Rene Rideau <fare@ZhengHe.augustin.thierry>
| While I'm giving away my ideas about a general free software business
| model because I'm personally convinced they might make a better world,
| I'm will not be giving away my work time, because I value it much;

  so you value your "work time" more than actually _doing_ something to
  make a better world?  geez.  this translates into "I don't believe what
  I'm saying, but it would be nice if some other people did".

| If you want me to undertake a precise business plan, I'm willing to do
| it, but I require to be paid accordingly, and since I'll need help from
| an accountant or other business consultant, this means you'll have to pay
| the consultant, too.  And so as to build this business plan, I'll need
| access to your company's business records, too, and likely to consulting
| relative to your country's national business legislation.

  let me get this straight.  you are unwilling even to invest enough of
  your own time and money to create a business plan that might help reach
  your goals if doing so could help other people believed in it?

| If you're interested in hiring my services for this matter (or another),
| you may contact my employing laboratory [1].

  not bloody likely.  after the above stunt, I cannot even assume you know
  how to do the job you are paid to do and I certainly would _not_ employ
  you in a business that planned to make money.

| We have experience in the design, development and deployment of
| very-large long-lasting high-reliability real-time information systems,
| for which we're more and more convinced that proprietary software
| products are part of the problem set as much as of the solution set.

  so get better people.  that probably means firing you, so I can see why
  you argue in favor of giving sources away so others can do your work for
  your for free if you just give them the sources.

| Your offer, if firm, will be considered seriously.

  except that you will not fund it yourself, which is what "seriously"
  _means_ in a discussion of business issues elsewhere.  I'll bet the
  saying "put your money where your mouth is" sounds really alien to you,
  but it's a very common saying towards people who are suspected of
  spouting hot air and not actually _wanting_ anything.

| Now, if you want me to undertake such work on my own spare time, for a
| company in which I'd invest personal capital, I even might.  But only
| when my current contract is over, and then, I'm afraid it will be for my
| own company, not for a foreign company I only know from Internet hearsay.

  so you now admit to know nothing at all about either Harlequin or Franz
  or Digitool or Elwood or any of the other players in the Lisp field.

  I'm glad my suspicions about you were not disproven.

  you'll note that I ignored the Followup-To to gnu.misc.discuss, which is
  just another of your despicable cop-out tactics.  you're just a nutball
  like the majority of the proponents of stealing other people's work, and
  when you can't talk your way out of it, you certainly will not _work_.
  and this is the commonality of people on gnu.misc.discuss, too, so thank
  you for telling us where you really belong.

  I hope Free Software and Open Source are considered less viable means of
  doing business after this, and that anyone who considers using their
  licenses to publish software in source form (which I still think is a
  good idea, but not for any of the reasons the shallow morons think, and
  most definitely _not_ to the general public), will think twice and talk
  to a good intellectual property lawyer about how to secure the rights of
  the _creators_ of intellectual property, not just those of its _users_.

  I'd like to get back to the future of Lisp now that we have shown what
  kind of people are likely to argue in favor of unencumbered access to
  other people's investments.

  in an information society, misinformation is as serious as murder