From ...
From: Erik Naggum <erik@naggum.no>
Subject: Re: Best Lisp for Windows NT?
Date: 1999/05/05
Message-ID: <3134899638508182@naggum.no>#1/1
X-Deja-AN: 474314879
References: <372c9359.702572255@news.earthlink.net> <m3r9ozl184.fsf@eho.eaglets.com> <372de455.723304977@news.earthlink.net> <3134715279176341@naggum.no> <372e9030.832835754@news.earthlink.net> <3134816211797975@naggum.no> <372FB204.325B1E9B@mindless.com> <3134865083642662@naggum.no> <372fff1b.926766920@news.earthlink.net>
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Organization: Naggum Software; +47 8800 8879; http://www.naggum.no
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp

* please-reply-in-the-forum@thank.you
| Generating end-user application executable files and/or components,
| DLL's, etc., is a big part of getting to know the product.  I'm not
| talking about getting to know the language, but getting to know the
| product.  Most software development environments have serious problems,
| and most of those problems come to light when actually using them for
| real work, not just evaluating them.

  I completely agree.  it seems, however, that you don't know what Franz
  Inc means by "evaluation", whereas I do, so I'll answer the question you
  failed to ask: the evaluation period gives you access to the maximal set
  of features that you _might_ buy, so you can decide what you need, _and_
  have time to try it out.  my experience is that this period is long
  enough to do serious work and see if it works out for you.

| Do they mention it anywhere on their web site?

  I'm not sure they like that I try to tell you in what _particular_ ways
  they are really nice guys.  in general, Franz Inc is excessively helpful
  to real peple -- those who make contact with them.  by excessively I mean
  that they have obviously been burned by being too helpful to some people
  and you should not be surprised that those are the people who don't show
  their faces or make themselves fully known.  Franz Inc is not an
  over-the-counter software vendor.  they actually want to know you, like a
  partner in the development process, not just a prostitute who hopes you
  don't call again with followup questions and "bug" reports.

| They seem to be pretty tight with information in general, even when
| contacted directly.

  I regard them as somewhat protective, but with every right to be so, and
  once you get to know these guys, you feel "inside" the same protective
  shield that keeps other bad things out.  I can't speak for others, but it
  is one of the reasons I decided to work closer with them.

| Before they will even give any hints of prices, they want all kinds of
| information about who wants to know.  The price of CL5 for Windows seems
| to be about $3000, but they won't say that until they ask a lot of
| questions.

  they do this to give you the lowest price for your customer category.

| In any case, my questions were not just about Franz, but about Lisp
| vendors in general.  I wanted to know the best Lisp for Windows NT.
| Price is a factor, but so are quality and features.  Being able to
| generate executables, DLL's, components, etc.  I want to compare them
| with what's available for other languages.  That's a big factor in the
| selection of a language for a new project.

  I agree.  I also tend to bring up Lisp when a project has failed and is
  no longer "new", i.e., when the complexity of the project is better known.

#:Erik