Subject: Re: application architecture for UI (Ex: Re: Is LISP dying?)
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 1999/07/25
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* (Rainer Joswig)
| How do you know people don't use CLIM for their design and abstract work?

  I'm asking _you_, Rainer, because the incessant whining strongly implies
  that if you can't have it all (for free, to boot), you can't use _any_ of
  it, which I have learned to recognize as the identifying mark of losers.
  your getting so damn defensive about all this keeps telling me something
  about CLIM that I really didn't want to know.

  in less than a week, most of which was spent nosediving into manuals and
  specifications, I implemented a very small Emacs read-eval-redisplay loop
  and multiple buffers and a bunch of non-trivial stuff, which used CLIM to
  update the display automagically and all.  I found that CLIM made a whole
  lot of stuff real easy, that it caused an enormous amount of X traffic,
  that its redisplay code was horribly slow, and I needed to get below CLIM
  to get control of the stuff that an Emacs would need.  it couldn't cover
  my needs and disappointed me greatly, but I readily admit that Emacs is a
  bad test case and that I didn't have a chance to play much with it at the
  time.  now that Franz Inc supports CLIM for Linux, maybe I can get back
  to play with it, but it seems to depend very heavily on a particular
  MOTIF implementation (even though I have full access to the entire MOTIF
  source base, I never got building it for Linux to complete successfully).

  suppose we blasted all politicians into space.
  would the SETI project find even one of them?