Subject: Re: With friends like Erik, c.l.l doesn't need enemies
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 1999/09/22
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Erann Gat
| I have found that people rarely make decisions based on first hand
| information.  They are much more likely to base their views on gut feel,
| zeitgeist, and the opinions of other people that they like and respect.
| Likewise, people will often take contrary positions to those that they
| don't like and don't respect even in the face of objective evidence.

  I'm really happy that you are beginning to realize this, and thus begin
  to see why it is necessary to stop people who make false accusations
  against others, such as your own absurd claims about the Holocaust.

| Erik is unnecessarily rude and abrasive.  He intentionally pushes
| people's hot buttons in the name of stamping out stupidity.

  this is just as unwarranted as everything else you're saying about me:
  you make new claims that you have no possible way to know the truth of.

| It only takes a few such people with the right connections to make the
| world a hostile place for Lisp.

  have you considered how this process applies to your treatment of me?

  considering your "insight" into these processes, why do you do your very
  best to continue a bunch of hostile myths against me?  I can only assume
  that your intention is to destroy me and my reputation much faster than
  you think I could do on my own, hence your Holocaust allegations and all
  this phenomenal crap.

  are you proud of what you are saying and implying, Erann Gat?  do you
  think you further the cause of anything at all with this crap?  and do
  you _really_ want to blame your inefficacy in convincing people at NASA
  to use Lisp on me?  what if they heard, or understood, that Erann Gat is
  a person who looks for people to blame, rather than try to solve and
  understand complex problems?  do you think you, as a proponent of Lisp
  inside NASA, is doing Lisp a _favor_ by continuing your "blame others"

| (I tried a new strategy for doing that a few days ago, but I'm afraid I
| failed.)

  you failed because you repeat the same thing that gets you into trouble
  every time you slander me: you make stupid claims that far exceed any
  possible context in which they could have been discovered, which they
  haven't, because you lack the precision and care to bother to check
  whether what you believe is relevant or fact.  I told you explicitly what
  you had to do, and I'll gladly repeat it here:

do me a favor and make an effort to understand this: I have said nothing
about what you have not shown me.  when you actually understand this fully,
we can discuss your reactions.  until you understand that I have said
nothing at all about what you have not shown me, nothing could ever make it
past that lack of understanding.

  you continue to prove my point: you speak volumes about that which you
  could not possibly know -- it has to be guesswork and insinuation by its
  very definition.  the above was the crux my last message to you and
  nearly the only part you did not quote in your last reply.  do you think
  I was making a joke?  do you not understand that you are extrapolating in
  the directions you like from single data points, and that this is the
  core of your problem, and the reason I think you're _really_ stupid and a
  danger to anyone who trusts you?

| The price we pay for Erik's insights is that job becomes a little harder.

  since you know so much about hos I react, why _did_ you post your
  slanderous Holocaust argument?  and why do you blame me for Raffael
  Cavallaro's _initial_ insane accusations?  is it because if you accept
  that he is responsible for his own accusations, you are fully responsible
  for your most insiduous Holocaust crap, too?

| That's why I basically agree with the sentiment expressed by the original
| poster: with friends like Erik, Common Lisp doesn't need enemies.

  of course you agree with him.  _anyone_ could predict that you would.
  you're the same kind of person: the kind of person who attacks me for
  things I have never said, who go one-dimensional on any complex issue
  (like, now, it's my fault you can't win NASA over to Lisp and you will
  have to program in C++ and Perl to make a living)

| I also hope he can be convinced that it would better advance our common
| interest if he would be a little less rude.

  do you think you're helping, Erann Gat?  what if you understood that the
  more you shut your filthy trap, the less need there will be to show that
  you're a destructive asshole without the ability to realize when you've
  gone too far slandering others falsely and unfairly?

  does the Lisp world need Erann Gat and Raffael Cavallaro?  does any world?