From ... Path: supernews.google.com!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!isdnet!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!uio.no!Norway.EU.net!127.0.0.1!nobody From: Erik Naggum Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Subject: Re: the naggum-mine claims another victim Date: 11 Dec 2000 03:00:03 +0000 Organization: Naggum Software; vox: +47 800 35477; gsm: +47 93 256 360; fax: +47 93 270 868; http://naggum.no; http://naggum.net Lines: 151 Message-ID: <3185492403281570@naggum.net> References: <3184181620609081@naggum.net> <3184225976178683@naggum.net> <3184273110399884@naggum.net> <3184410282846018@naggum.net> <900nor$af$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <3184438297633725@naggum.net> <901p7c$tka$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: oslo-nntp.eunet.no 976504622 26078 195.0.192.66 (11 Dec 2000 03:17:02 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@eunet.no NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Dec 2000 03:17:02 GMT mail-copies-to: never User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) Emacs/20.7 Xref: supernews.google.com comp.lang.lisp:4993 * Tom Breton | Yes, adds to it, and adds greatly to a hostile atmosphere. No, the hostile atmosphere is not caused by me in _any_ way. I do not address the "atmosphere", but individual people and individual actions of these people. The people who address the atmosphere and who attack people are Marcus G. Daniels, Raffael Cavallaro, Tom Breton, and such random vermin as Israel Thomas. I am not responsible, nor could I ever be, for the kind of articles you USENET terrorists post. You must grow up to take responsibility for your own actions. You cannot blame anyone else for what you do. The kind of provocation you can claim just "happen" to you in real life does not happen in a written medium. You have the option of refraining from responding, of delaying your response until you calm down, of responding in ways that reflect who you want to be, option you do not have in a bar brawl, say, because of the physical and immediate nature of the conflict. If you do not understand this, as I suspect you guys never will, neither will you understand your own role in perpetuating the hostilities like the kinds of apes that form street gangs and fight over their honor. Now, the most interesting thing here is how the USENET terrorists Tom Breton, Marcus G. Deniels, Raffael Cavallaro and such random vermin as Israel Thomas defend their evil. They do not address actions in a way that it is possible to change anything and have their evil stop. It has always been inordinately simple and straight-forward to stop my criticism, but it amazes me that the moron terrorists do not grasp it. Do not post _your_ personal attacks. I don't attack out of the blue. I never have and I never will. People who want to push my buttons know exactly what to do, and I'm accused of being very predictable by those who try, such as Marcus G. Deniels, who does it for his own insane and perverse "enjoyment". You can't accuse people of being predictable and at the same time claim that they do something without reason. But Marcus G. Daniels is the kind of person who does that. Tom Breton is the kind of person who does that. Raffael Cavallaro is the kind of person who does that. Take a good, close look at the first article that leaking douchebag Israel Thomas ever posted to comp.lang.lisp and you must _be_ Tom Breton if you do not understand what kind of personality we are dealing with in that instance. I cannot _possibly_ be responsible for such first attacks on me. I have no _possible_ way of preventing it, modifying it, _anything_. Only a criminally nsane person like Tom Breton could even _think_ of blaming me for that first hostile article. The hostile atmosphere was and is the responsibility of people like Marcus G. Daniels, who thrive on making other people hate and disrespect who he hates and disrespects. His _goal_ is to create hostile atmospheres where some people are attacked. Israel Thomas is the evidence that he succeeds. That Tom Breton rears his ugly head and Raffael Cavallaro thinks it's OK to come back with more of his unique hostility is the fault of people who try to work the forum up to hate and disrespect people. The moral culpability lies with such instigators, and the morons who respond, that is, pathetic shit-for-brains like Israel Thomas, probably have no mental capacity to understand how they got into their emotional state to begin with. If they did, they would be ashamed of it and stop it. The people who work up the hostile atmosphere are those who keep it up after every conceivable reason for doing so is gone. I have made it very, very clear that people have an opportunity to do something else. I am explicit about it in every single conflict. People like Tom Breton do not understand this, not because they distrust _me_, but because they distrust _themselves_. They are are hateful, revengeful, and harbor a certainty about their emotional prejudices that defines madness and insanity. On top of it, they are massively uintelligent under pressure, so any ability they would otherwise be able to invoke to change their minds is disconnected. Such people usually grow up to be criminals, gang members, rapists, football hooligans, wife beaters, street protesters who destroy property in blind rage, etc. The very important distinction between normal people and such anti-social scum is that only by thinking do they refrain from violence and other forms of disrespect for other people and their property, so when they lose their ability to think, nothing keeps them back, anymore. Normally matured and socially responsible people actually have an _emotional_ restriction against violence and injustice and disrespect for people and property. It's what we call _conscience_. The kinds of people who have to keep thinking in order to stop themselves from harming others do not actually _have_ a conscience. If you have to _think_ about whether to hit somebody when verbally provoked, you _will_ hit when you feel sufficiently provoked. If your emotional response is _not_ to hit, you don't have to think about it. Pretty simple, yet overlooked by people who normally believe that thinking is much more important than feeling. Such people talk about _controlling_ one's emotions. I submit that the normal, healthy, mature human being does not _have_ feelings that need to be controlled. Those who control their emotions through conscious processes actually _fear_ their own emotions and will respond with extreme _hostility_ to people who argue that no such control is necessary if you are good person. That is why Tom Breton's first inclination is to distrust. | Why should anybody else believe that? Distrust without due cause is a symptom of destructive personalities. | You seem to be trying hard not to understand the point. You assert | several times that Erik's doing good, when IMO it's patently obvious | he is doing great harm. I can't break thru a wall of denial like that. No, just like the facts cannot be broken through by your distrust. The day you realize that you _may_ be wrong is the day you have a new hope of becoming an honest human being. Until then, the "wall of denial" sadly applies to he who erects it, not he who identifies it. | But the situation in cll is a constant, perpetual thing. I think we need to keep this statement very clearly in mind. This is how Tom Breton sees the situation. Marcus G. Daniels has a similarly deranged and distorted view of both me and the newsgroup. These guys do not see what they do not want to see. We have a long-term resident in comp.lang.lisp who also expressed exactly similar attitudes some time ago, but I was deeply impressed when he understood that he did harbor an image of me that prevented him from seeing what actually happened, and simply stopped doing it. That has happened to a dozen people over the past two dozen years | And so of course it sometimes erupts, because people just get tired of | this constant garbage and shoot back. And I certainly can't blame | them. That's surprisingly honest of you, and we need to keep this in mind as a literal statement of how you think and feel, too. No, _you_ most certainly can't "blame" the right person for his actions. Everybody else should, and probably do. The idea that provocation is a license to initiate violence is held only by people who _want_ a license from somebody else to initiate violence. The idea that it is OK to open fire on somebody (the degree of violence is determined not by the principle but by the "provocation") you don't like simply because you claim to be "provoked" is proof of a personality that is a threat to public safety. Tom Breton has a criminal mind with no concept of justice and fairness. One must expect him, like Marcus G. Daniels, to commit acts of actual physical destruction because of his _admitted_ inability to take responsibility for his own actions and his extraordinary willingness to exonerate and excuse others when they attack a target he harbors hatred and emotional prejudice towards. Such is behavior and thinking we find in street thugs and mobsters, but such people are also allowed on USENET. The results are what we see from Tom Breton, Raffael Cavallaro, and Marcus G. Daniels, and the overall result is that random vermin like Isreal Thomas feel that is OK to post their braindamaged shit and to keep feeling enraged despite absence of anything concrete that could explain it. Irrational and destructive minds like that need the Marcus G. Danielsses of the world to feel OK, and Tom Breton and Raffael Cavallaro keep them whipped up in that anti-intelligent, anti-justice, anti-rational, anti-ethical emotional state. If these emotionally disturbed lunatics could snap out of it and start to _think_, there wouldn't be any hostility, and the Marcus G. Danielses of the world would again become invisible. #:Erik -- "When you are having a bad day and it seems like everybody is trying to piss you off, remember that it takes 42 muscles to produce a frown, but only 4 muscles to work the trigger of a good sniper rifle." -- Unknown