Subject: Re: the naggum-mine claims another victim
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 11 Dec 2000 20:40:51 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Marcus G. Daniels
| I think he has and will set the tone here, and it won't be a nice one. 

  Well, _you_ have set the tone here, too, and it _is_ not a nice one.

  A forum with people who gang up on others with insane accusations in
  the spirit of _your_ disrespect and hostility must appeal to you since
  you keep it up, but I wonder how it is possible for someone concerned
  about how _others_ influence a forum to neglect his _own_ role.

| I think he has and will alienate people for no good reason, other than
| to satisfy his self-centered impulses.

  Well, rather than alienate people, you bring in the lunatics with
  _your_ tone.  That is _much_ worse.  I don't know about self-centered.
  It's such an incredibly childish thing to say, but I guess _you_ know.

| Further, I think he has and will be accomodated, not for his knowledge
| of Lisp, but because discouraging his abusiveness seems difficult and
| unrealistic.

  Just as you have been and will be "accomodated" because you think you
  are even _more_ justified in posting your _purely_ destructive shit
  than I am in posting _technical_ corrections and urging people not to
  post guesses, untested code, etc.  I have a very clear objective, and
  it is only people like you and Tom Breton who actively distrust it,
  but when it is satisfied, I'm actually happy about it.  I have no idea
  what your objective is.  Would anything at all make you happy and shut
  up, short of my violent death at your hands, of course?

  Please tell the forum what would make you happy and satisfied that you
  have reached your goals.  I think that would be fascinating to hear.

| I have come to think these things after being subjected to Erik's
| careless whims for many years in a variety of contexts.

  You get what you ask for.  You have been attacking me out of the blue
  for as long as I can remember, with an endless stream of snide remarks.
  What do you really _expect_ with _your_ behavior?  Why do you fail to
  realize that your actions cause reactions in kind from other people?

| For a while, I was sympathetic to Erik because he does say things that
| ring true.  However, I came to realize he also says things that are
| utterly misguided and wrong.  Worse, the weaker his position the more
| violent, aggressive, and circular his arguments become.

  Then how come your best response is a snide remark?  One must wonder.
  People who make such broad generalizations as you do have never come
  up with any actual evidence of what is "utterly misguided and wrong",
  or even what would be _right_.  It is mere opinion, and the hostility
  that such people have towards me is not a very good indicator of the
  truth of _their_ claim, is it?  Failure to deal with differences of
  opinion through the kind of sniper attacks with endless reems of snide
  remarks and hostility-breeding attitudes that you have kept going for
  years and years does not exactly _convince_ anyone that you're right.
  All it does is convince people that if I want away or shut up, you'd
  be free to post _your_ "opinion" without response from people who know
  better.  If this sounds familiar to the Tom Breton optimization case,
  well, that is _no_ surprise, is it?  And see how he went off the deep
  end, just like you have.  People who are wrong and dead set never to
  change their mind no matter what happens do turn into lunatics who
  attack me for anything and everything and exaggerate like madmen about
  their problems with me.  But their problem is with _my_ unwillingness
  to accept their bogus stories.  Apparently that is something we share,
  only you're too fucking retarded to realize it.

  On the other hand, I wonder what the hell is wrong with saying things
  that are "utterly misguided and wrong".  Are you disappointed that I'm
  not _perfect_?  Hell, _I'm_ not even disappointed that I'm not perfect.
  With all this bullshit about cults, self-centered, etc, I conclude
  that you have cast me as a cult leader cum guru who has _betrayed_ you
  by not always posting brilliant and superbly correct answers.

  But seriously, are there _anyone_ on this planet that, in some _other_
  people's views, do _not_ say things that are "utterly misguided and
  wrong"?  Even on a regular basis?  What kind of people live up to your
  demand that they _never_ say anything that is utterly misguided and
  wrong?  Is this really how you have such fucked-up ideas about people
  _enforcing_ conformance to definitions?  What kind of lunacy is _that_?

  Yes, I say things that Marcus G. Daniels thinks is utterly misguided
  and wrong.  He responds with snide remarks and broad generalizations.
  Take your pick.  If he can't be bothered to do something constructive
  and has to try to tarnish people for failing to live up to his weird
  requirements, what he considers "utterly misguided and wrong" may just
  be correct for everyone else.  There's no way of knowing, though.

  "When you are having a bad day and it seems like everybody is trying
   to piss you off, remember that it takes 42 muscles to produce a
   frown, but only 4 muscles to work the trigger of a good sniper rifle."
								-- Unknown