Subject: Re: Promoting CL Was: What I want from my Common Lisp vendor and the Common Lisp community
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: Mon, 03 Sep 2001 13:17:11 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* John Foderaro <>
> Your insistence that people knowledgeable about Common Lisp pretend that
> the langauge has no flaws means you want us to appear to be stupid or
> liars.

  Excuse the second followup to the same annoyingly untrue bullshit, but do
  you seriously think you communicate "flaws" in the _language_ when you do
  nothing more intelligent than call the three conditionals "bogus" and
  unconditionally call on people to avoid complex loop?  Do you think
  anyone knowledgeable about Common Lisp will consider you the least bit
  intelligent or constructive when you claim that _that_ constitutes the
  "flaws" of the language?  Come on!  Pretending that your idiotic rant
  about if/when/unless/loop is somehow a useful contribution about the
  language on par with an intelligent, thoughtful analysis of problems is
  so self-serving as to make you look even more stupid than you did in the
  first place.  That you _keep_ that idiotic document available on the Net
  is definitely _not_ to your credit.

> If we Common Lispers don't admit to the problems in the language people
> will as Java or C++ fans and they they'll hear a set of damaging and
> likely untrue problems that will make Common Lisp seem worse than it
> really is.

  And what, precisely, _are_ "the problems in the language" with respect to
  if/when/unless and loop?  There is nothing more than _aesthetic_ whining
  in your rant.  Loop has lots of _real_ problems, none of which you touch
  upon.  The document you have posted on "lisp coding standards" is an
  insult to any thinking person and especially those who like Common Lisp,
  despite any wants and flaws.

  If I understand you correctly, you think that by preempting the Java/C++
  crowd in denouncing Common Lisp as "flawed" for some fantastically stupid
  aesthetic reasons, you will make it look better that it would have been
  if the Java/C++ people were allowed to do it?  Geez.  How stupid is this?
  Who do you think will _fall_ for this fantastically irrational line of

> I look forward to seeing replies from you that are adult and thus don't
> contain personal attacks against me or anyone else.

  Your passive-aggressive style of confrontation pisses me off more than
  anything else you do, John Foderaro.  In fact, it makes you appear so far
  from sincere as you can possibly get.  Your sincerity has been questioned
  by more people than myself, too.  I no longer trust you in any capacity,
  neither your code nor your statements -- when push comes to shove and you
  really have to defend yourself or something you say, you are the most
  _dishonest_ person I have ever had the displeasure of dealing with, even
  topping Erann Gat.