Subject: Re: New Lisp ?
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: Thu, 27 Dec 2001 07:06:44 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.scheme,comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.functional
Message-ID: <>

* israel r t
> Lisp needs to reinvent itself.

* Andreas Bogk
| I suggest to take a look at Dylan.

  Since the whole thread is a spoof of an article that caused the Scheme
  community to explode in rage and the resident Dylan fans completely fail
  to understand that this is a stupid attempt to inflame the Lisp community
  likewise, but rather once again take part in it with their unsolicited
  Dylan marketing campaign -- which is no surprise, like Scheme fans, they
  also erroneously think their language is a Lisp and annoy comp.lang.lisp
  with marketing for their Lisp-wannabe languages every once in a while --
  the conlusion is clear: Dylan is worth a look if and only if Lisp needs
  to reinvent itself, which it does not need any more than Scheme does.

  Both Dylan and Scheme have distanced themselves from the Lisp community
  in a number of important ways, but when they lose ground, they return to
  their Lisp heritage, and when they gain ground, they point out how Lisp
  is not longer worth anyone's time.  This closely parallels the behavior
  of immature children who want to distance themselves from their parents
  as long as they risk nothing by doing so.  If Dylan and Scheme were for
  real, they would make a clean cut with Lisp and attempt to make it on
  their own without constant references to their heritage, good or bad.
  "Members of the Lisp family" try to point out much better they are than
  their parent, whatever "Lisp" as a parent means.  Even Paul Graham, the
  inventor of the silly new toy language "arc", needs to point out how
  Common Lisp is superior to his new toy by knocking Common Lisp before he
  has anything to show for himself.

  Attacking Common Lisp is primarily a way to say "I don't understand
  feature X, therefore it is must be bad and should be removed".  If they
  spent as much time trying to understand what was going on as they do
  trying to fight against Common Lisp, they would not need to fight, either.

  The past is not more important than the future, despite what your culture
  has taught you.  Your future observations, conclusions, and beliefs are
  more important to you than those in your past ever will be.  The world is
  changing so fast the balance between the past and the future has shifted.