Subject: Re: Newbie - 2 MORE Small problems? From: Erik Naggum <email@example.com> Date: Mon, 11 Mar 2002 03:01:34 GMT Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Message-ID: <firstname.lastname@example.org> * Thomas Bushnell, BSG | Scheme is usually represented as one dialect of Lisp. comp.lang.lisp | *predates* Common Lisp, however. It seems to me that comp.lang.lisp | should therefore be for all Lisps (and principally for those in | current use, of course). The nature and process of newsgroup splits dictates that if you get a forum for yourself, you do _not_ bother the general community. comp.lang.scheme decided to make have own community, and they should be happy there instead of wanting _two_: One for your own little pet language, and for the the general "Lisp" that you refuse to recognize that you are no longer a member of by virtue of your own forum. The same goes for Dylan, but we have _thankfully_ been relieved of D*lan propaganda, lately. | Well, I wasn't insulted, I just said it seemed like you wanted an | argument--which seems true indeed. I respond to your accusation that I want an insult battle. Do not use a rejection of your position as proof that it was true. Such dishonesty is usually reserved for extreme and ultra-conservative politicians, not people who have honest intentions with what they do. Some people I have argued against in the past have a very serious problem seeing a difference between my arguing against what they argue for and my arguing for what they argue against. I suggest you think this over and make sure you know what people are actually arguing for and against. If you have a philosoophy background, this difference should be _really_ easy to see. | You seem to have a common pattern here: you post something really | provocative, you accuse someone else of trolling when you were the first | really provocative poster, etc, etc. Really? I wrote: > set! is bad form. setf is not. Just another one of those differences > between real Lisps like Common Lisp and toy lisps like Scheme. after _you_ had opened up for a comparison between Common Lisp and Scheme with a goddamn smiley, but when I joke back, you find it "really provocative", and _you_ insult me with something so stupid as this: | Ah, so this is an insult battle. Not interested here. Could it _possibly_ be that you were the first to go hostile here, and that you are so blind to your own actions that you are _never_ at fault? There are a lot of people out there who have deep psychological barriers to accepting that they behave badly in some way and who defend themselves by accusing the other party of everything that could possibly apply to themselves, and who even play the stupid mirror game, but the refusal to consider that the other party is at fault is _not_ the moronic argument that one is not. You have to think in such terms to even arrive at the idea that that is what other people do. If you are only used to such people, I pity you, but a _little_ room for a balanced view of things _should_ be available even in the most prejudiced who really need to regard themselves as "good guys" _all_ the time. The biggest, if not the _only_, problem on USENET is that people need to defend themselves, usually because someone thinks that they defend themselves best by accusing somebody of something completely outlandish that they never expressed, implied, or opened up to be inferred. | I haven't said any "venomous crap" against "the real Lisp" (which is, of | course, Maclisp) :). I haven't said anything venomous against that other | PL/I Lisp (you know, Common Lisp). Why is _this_ not "really provocative"? You are in a forum where people are interested in Common Lisp in particular, yet you go on and on with your stupid insults towards Common Lisp, but as soon as I have a little fun with your toy lanauge, you find it "really provocative" and go nuts? Are you for real? | Actually, the first edition of Common Lisp was a really nifty | achievement, but the later stuff is baffling to me. It's an issue of | style though, unlike many, I don't have any particular zealoutry to | convince everyone that my way is the only true way. "Actually" is usually reserved for facts, not biased opinions. Regardless of what you _feel_, it is probably smart to avoid provoking people in the forum where people expressly congegrate to enjoy what you do not. This is why I poke fun at Scheme and XML and Perl and C++ _here_ -- not in their newsgroups. Do you grasp this difference? Can you _quit_ being so sensitive about your stupid toy language when you are not in _its_ particular forum and community? Of _course_ people have a right to think Scheme sucks here -- you guys got your own newsgroup so you could discuss Scheme without fighting with real Lispers. /// -- In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none. In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.