Subject: Re: case-sensitivity and identifiers (was Re: Wide character implementation)
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 04:11:32 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Thomas Bushnell, BSG
| Huh?  If they are different words, then *by the definition of a phoneme*
| the sound which distinguishes them is a phoneme.  What is a "toneme"?

  Stress is generally not considered to be a difference in phoneme.

  The sound is exactly the same, but whether you have entering, departing,
  rising, falling, high, low, up-down, down-up, or level tone can and does
  change the meaning of the word.  Thai, for instance, has explicit tone
  markers.  Chinese has different ideographs for words that are pronounced
  with the same phonemes and different tonemes.

  Consider the phonemes of the word "really".  The toneme is the difference
  in pronunciation between "Really?" and "Really." and "Really!".

  French, for instance, has no stress, but tends to use maringally shorter
  and longer vowels.  They also have no tonemes, so they French have very
  _serious_ problems dealing with other languages and sound ridiculous in
  almost every other language than their own.

  In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none.
  In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.