Subject: Re: contra graham From: Erik Naggum <firstname.lastname@example.org> Date: Sat, 08 Jun 2002 22:26:58 GMT Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp Message-ID: <email@example.com> * Donald Fisk | It is, and he makes this quite clear, a comment on Java's _cover_ based on | how Java is presented to the world, and his reasons for being suspicious | about it, not on the merits of the language itself ("Bear in mind, this is | not a critique of Java, but a critique of its cover. Would you want the same thing to be done about yourself or something you had done? Would you want it to be done about Common Lisp? If you have different rules for different people, I do not care about your rules. However, if you would as happily accept the same treatment of Common Lisp, let me know, and I shall consider your opinions. Whether you "agree" with such a load of crap or you think Java "deserves" a treatment like that is wholly immaterial. If you allow it to happen to other people and other things, you must allow it to happen to yourself and to things you value. If you let someone trash Java this way, you have opened the door to trash Common Lisp this way. Because Paul Graham does it, he has directly invited people who think Java is a good idea to think Lisp is bad because _Paul Graham_ is associated with hit. | Lisp is unpopular _because_ it is so good. Nonsense. (Common) Lisp is unpopular because of the exact same crappy "reasoning" that Paul Graham applies to Java. It has nothing to do with quality. It has everything to do with ignorant fucks who plaster their prejudice all over the place, without ever looking at it on their own. Paul Graham has done to Java what most sane Common Lisp defenders argue is so wrong to do to Common Lisp. That is the issue, not whether Java sucks or not. Incidentally, he also thinks Common Lisp sucks. Please, just think. People generally think better if they take off their asbestos suits, because the mortally frightened generally do not think. -- In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none. In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief. 70 percent of American adults do not understand the scientific process.