Subject: Re: contra graham
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: Wed, 12 Jun 2002 10:56:48 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Gordon Joly
| I attacked the method of debate, not the person.   It was related
| directly to what the person had said, quoting it back directly.

  There is no such thing as the "method of debate".  Your goal was to
  discredit the person and deter people from listening to the argument
  because _you_ did not like something about the "delivery".  You have had
  absolutely _nothing_ to say about the argument.  So just figure it out.

  "Measured debate", my ass, what you are after is pure and simple control
  over people's expression of their opinions.  As long as you do not
  address the contents of argument, shut the fuck up about your "measured
  debate".  Annoying hypocrites like that infest every newsgroup and should
  be shot on sight.

| Could you recommend "a reasonably good book on argumentation"?

  David Kelley: The Art of Reasoning.
  Anthony Weston: A Rulebook for Arguments.

  My other recommendations are unfortunately University textbooks in
  Norwegian, but if you have had debate in school at any level, you _know_
  that starting to talk about the "method of debate" is _completely_ out of
  line, especially the idiotic inference about the arguers thinking
  ability, which I assume you are aware of, yet seem to want to ignore that
  you have said.  If that is an apology, make it explicit, please.

  Here is my concern about your hypocritical concern: Why are you trying to
  imply that you do not know this when you are so hypocritically concerned
  about "measured debate"?  Something is not right, and because there is a
  definite "stink" to your hypocritical concern, it is hostile.  However,
  it seems that you are simply massively ignorant of what you speak, and
  should be cut some slack.  Please let me know if you are clueless and
  really innocent, and I shall ignore your transgression.
  In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none.
  In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.

  70 percent of American adults do not understand the scientific process.