Subject: Re: The Next Generation of Lisp Programmers
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 27 Aug 2002 09:32:44 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* (Ziv Caspi)
| I assure you that isn't the case: I love LISP.

  Yet it does not have a syntax you can live with?  Could you please make up
  your mind before the "troll" verdict is handed down?

| Ask any programmer in any other language, and he'll count you several
| features in his language that he doesn't like.

  I highly doubt that this is true.  First, you are now talking about /all/
  programmers even though you object when you were not even included in a
  statement that made you think you were included.  Gross generalizations are
  seldom welcome.  Second, "doesn't like' is such an unqualified position.
  There are things I would like to change in Common Lisp (my current favorite
  is 32-bit fixnums on 32-bit hardware and then I have taken to use a local
  macro `set´ instead of `setq´ and `setf´, but the fact that I can is good),
  but from wanting to change to "do not like" is actually a /very/ long way
  for normal people.  Third, if you have found /that/ many programmers who
  actively "do not like" features in their programming language and spend time
  on things they do not like, it could be because you are such a killjoy that
  you inspire people to complain.  It is surprising what people will complain
  about if they think it is only acceptable to complain and how constructive
  they are if they think it is only acceptable to be constructive.  Whining
  losers like yourself are a problem in a community that tries to /solve/
  problems and stay excited about something.  A lot of people come to this
  newsgroup and do nothing but complain about Lisp.  I think maybe they are
  such heavy complainers that they think they read comp.lain.lisp.

| Why is this not true for LISP as well?

  I fear you might have acquired too much experience with things you do not
  like in your life.  This is actually a fixable condition.  As you grow older,
  you realize that what life you have left is not worth wasting on things you
  do not like and you do something about it.  Many young people never figure

  this out until they lose their ability to like /anything/.  In fact, that
  elusive ability to "stay young" is to continue to look for things to like
  and instead of disliking something, just leave it and go look for something
  else to like.  So far, you seem like an amazingly grumpy old fart, yet you
  do not even appear to have reached your thirties.  I find people like you
  very annoying since they will always conjure up some sort of "problem" to
  take away from other people's enjoyment.

  People who survived the 80's and 90's tend to write Lisp, not 70'sish LISP.

Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.