Subject: Re: Difference between LISP and C++
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 24 Oct 2002 02:52:22 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* arien <spammers_suck@getlost.invalid>
| yep, you are still weird.

  You keep claiming that you have problems learning Common Lisp.  Your real
  problem, however, is that you appear to have to force-fit things to fit
  your preconceived notions.  This is not a Common Lisp problem.  This is a
  personal problem on your end.  Your lack of ability to  understand that
  other people have a point of view that you may benefit from understanding
  is downright annoying.  This is all about you, you, you.  Nothing you do
  here is about understanding others.  The whole fucking world has to adapt
  to /your/ way of looking at things.  People here have tried to help you,
  in their spare time.  Goddamn ungrateful egoist.

| Perhaps you should re-read all the posts, right from the start.

  Other people are not like yourself.  Other people read fast and have a
  very high comprehension and retention of what they have read.

| I never came here winging about Lisp.  I came here trying to seek
| understanding.

  But only on your own terms.  That is not understanding.

| All I got is weird idiotic cyber freeks like you flaming me, trying to
| tell me I dumb.

  Have I said you are dumb?  No.  I have implied very strongly that unless
  you have better ways of expressing yourself, your very stupid actions may
  well reflect on your person.  You have a choice here.  You can either
  confirm people's suspicions by not doing any better, or you can exercise
  the freedom that I and many others (who are not like you) grant other
  people at every interaction.  You are obviously not used to being given
  second chances, but insist on dwelling on the past instead of looking to
  the future.  Your whole obsession with how hard Common Lisp is compared
  to Java just confirms this unhealthy dwelling on the past.  Get over the
  past.  You can do nothing about you.  You can do just about everything
  about the future.

| I'm not, and all I could do is defend myself.

  No, all you could do is do something better.  Nobody is interested in
  your how defend your past mistakes.  Everyone is interested in how you
  learn from them, improve yourself, and do not repeat them.  Only you are
  interested in defending yourself.  It is indecent of you to force people
  to sit through your egoistic self-defense.  The purpose of criticizing
  something you said was that you learn from it, think, and improve.  If
  you all you can do is defend yourself, you were a waste of time to
  respond to.

| Now I'm getting flamed for defending myself - wow!

  Defending yourself when /you/ are not attacked is incredibly stupid.  It
  means that whatever criticism was directed at your actions may have been
  the best you can do and there is no hope to see you improve.  For most
  people, this is not how they should present themselves.

| No, it's called defending myself following a barage of critism.

  Nobody is interested in your self-defense, only in your doing better.

| Others in the same thread have already admitted that the parentheses in
| lisp can be difficult

  Some feel-good jerk does that in order to make you feel good.  See how
  much that really helped you understand anything.  I know that people who
  make whining noises like you do would seize upon any such feel-good crap
  and use it as a reason not to exercise yourself.  Ignore the feel-good
  guys and just /do better next time/.  I will applaud you if you do well
  and reprimand you if you do not get the point but insist on defending
  yourself.  Unlike the feel-good guys, I have zero interest in you as a
  person, only in what you came here to do: Learn Common Lisp.

| But you need to stop denying that the problem doesn't exist - it does.

  The problem you perceive to exist does not exist.  There is a problem,
  but it is not what you think it is.  You refuse to listen to people who
  have seen literally hundreds of people before you whining just like you
  do.  This ignorant arrogance is not to your credit.

| I never came here whining. You need to learn how to read. Why don't you
| start at the top.

  And just /when/ did your arrogance reach such heights that you think you
  are here to give people advice?  Geez, the snotty attitude of some people.

| hmmm.......did I blame my tools did I. Your starting to state things that
| are not true. Learn how to read.

  Perhaps you should try to understand /why/ somebody reads you this way
  instead of getting your stupid high horse to defend yourself?  Nobody is
  interested in your self-defense -- only you.  Here we care about getting
  the point and learning to program in Lisp.  That is why you claim you
  came here, but is not actually true, is it?  You came here to ask people
  to validate your pain.  Some people are into this kind of touchy-feely
  crap, and others are not.  If you attack those who are not into these
  psyche games, you run the risk of losing the sympathy even of the former.

| Ah, an analogy. Wow, very impressive. Actually, I hate McDonalds, and I
| enjoy fine wine. In fact, I used to live in the Barossa Valley. What your
| talking is just trash.

  Your inability to get the point of the analogy does suggest a deficient

| Be careful using 'we' on usenet. TINW, haven't you ever heard of that.

  Look who forgot their chill pill this morning!  Did you want to learn
  Lisp or did you come here to defend yourself when you /have/ been an
  idiot and /continue/ to act like an idiot?  Make a choice.  If you have
  been stupid, nobody will hold that against you, especially not I.  If you
  continue to be stupid when you have been asked to stop, that /will/ be
  held against you.  Get with the program!  Focus on your stated goal.

Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.