Subject: Re: Looking for Lisp compiler
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 30 Dec 2002 17:40:17 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Pascal Costanza
| wrt (1): This is also the case for some of the regular posters.
| Some of them try to defend Common Lisp by all means, and at least
| one of them has even stated this as an explicit goal.  I fail to
| see what this has to do with any notion of "truth".

  I have never seen that happen.  Could you point me to at least a few
  examples where you believed this to take place?  Note that you have
  a pretty lousy track record of getting people's intentions right and
  that my willingness to take your word for it when you make this kind
  of extremely rude claim is exactly zero (and in your inimical style
  remove every shred of the target of your slander).  Your impression
  is not necessarily the pure and unadulterated truth just because it
  is your personal experience.  You arrive at "conclusions" about how
  other people feel and what their intentions are, and you annoy the
  hell out of me, at least, by insisting that you are right about this
  and that the people you make these claims about shall not correct
  you.  As for the statement of explicit goal, dig it up and quote it.
  If you have to chicken out of actually naming the people you talk
  /about/, you indicate to the whole world that you no longer have (if
  you ever had) any interest in /dialog/ with them, and that is the
  kind of rudeness you have pretty clearly indicated that /you/ do not
  like when it happens to others.  One would have thought that you, of
  all people, would at least pay attention to such things, but no.

| P.S.: I wonder what Common Lisp vendors think about this situation.

  No, you don't.  You say this only to affect people how people feel.

| Or am I overestimating the impact of newsgroups?

  Yes, and you have still to figure out that this is a /technical/
  forum.  I doubt that you even know what a technical forum is.

| (Some background information: This is my first real newsgroup
| experience, and I have only made my first posting in this year's
| August.  Before that, I have only occasionally touched newsgroups.
| So I possibly have wrong expectations...)

  Not only expectations, but preconceptions that cannot be changed by
  facts, and you simply /cannot/ keep quiet about them.  What makes
  you think that your behavior is not massively annoying and so scares
  away much more people than any other cause you think is evil?  You
  go out of your way to post off-topic drivel and make claims about
  other people that you cannot possibly know, and you are adamant that
  you are not part of the problem.  This fact alone pisses people off.

  Some people actually /listen/ before they talk and try to grasp the
  ambiance in a group before they pronounce their judgment and seek to
  change it to their liking.  The other Pascal also fails to do that,
  As do several past whiners and feelers.  This is not a coincidence.

  Please tell us why you could not control yourself and just /had/ to
  chip in with your vague, yet specifically /negative/, bullshit.

  What happened to that philosophy of yours about spewing feel-good
  crap so people felt included?  You demonstrate that you suffer from
  exactly the same problem you attack others for so cowardly: the
  incredibly primitive us-vs-them tribal attitude.  Upgrade yourself!
  Become a /thinking/ human being, and grow the hell up so you can
  start to assume responsibility for your /own/ behavior.

  Consider whether this forum benefits from yet more drivel from you,
  or whether it would really be improved a lot more if you shut up
  about your feelings and acted according to your own rules, instead
  of demanding that only the people you dislike do that.
Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.