Subject: Re: Lisp in the "real world"
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 1997/07/02
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.scheme
Message-ID: <>

* Martin Rodgers
| So you're saying that I'm using the wrong OS?

no, Martin, that is not what I'm saying.  please try to understand your
native language for a change.

I'm actually saying that whatever OS Martin Rodgers is using (be it Windows
or some Unix or whatever) is utterly irrelevant for any public discussion
of anything whatsoever that has any bearing at all on anything outside of
his cubicle and his relationship with his colleagues.  Martin Rodgers'
choice (or lack thereof) of OS is as insignificant to the future of Lisp as
the fact that my second 19" Sun M monitor burned the other day, and that
the spare I received from a friend also burned.  yes, I used to run a
dedicated Emacs with Allegro Common Lisp on that display.  of course, I'm
very sad about this loss, and I have to find a way to either use virtual
displays or crowd the Emacs I run Allegro in into the first display which
is full of status-displaying windows, ZenIRC, Gnus, etc, if I can't locate
another monitor that's still in good shape.  should I quit using Lisp, now
that I have had a small setback?  should I sit down and cry that the world
is harsh and uninhabitable?  and are _you_ getting bored yet?

you see, Martin, the above irrelevant rant is the level on which you're
talking to us about Windows and DLLs, Martin.  irrelevant technical details
from your immediate surroundings that have no trace of value to discuss
with anybody.  who _cares_ what Martin Rodgers suffers through in his
working day?  who _cares_ what other Windows victims suffer through in
their working day?  who _cares_ how many gazillions of Windows victims
there are as long as there are enough of the _relevant_ people to keep the
Lisp vendors happy and growing?

now, of course it would be useful if one could program on a real computer
and deploy on the GAIDS-infected wastes, but hey, if somebody actually has
the money to put where their mouth is, it'll happen.  as long as some
whining loser lost somewhere in Britain makes a lot of noise about it, but
refuses to buy it when it comes out (ooh, it's too expensive for my toy
budget!), refuses to pay for the development (oh, no, I didn't mean _I_
should help them), and effectively argues against people who do make a
living using Lisp in non-Windows environments and even against those who
make a living in the Windows world _without_ that magic DLL thingy (oh,
that's not the "real world"), _why_ should anyone do it?

and _if_ somebody does it, what will Martin Rodgers complain about next?
you see, Martin, you don't do anything constructive here at all, so I'm
loathe to have a vendor actually come up with a solution to your problem,
as you might accidentally stumble on some relevant issue to whine about if
you don't continue to whine that you can't use it, it's too expensive, it
has the wrong color, it has American spelling, or something like that.

| I'll make it clear for you.  Windows people ...

I wonder how clear a message needs to be for you to get it, Martin.  let's
try again with a single sentence:

    "Windows people" DO NOT MATTER on the time scale where Lisp matters.

you seem to be utterly unable to handle anything but the most trivial of
technical details, unable to lift your gaze to anything having a time frame
of more than a slight elongation of the moment, and incapable of handling
the fact that Microsoft's reign will pass.  you're just like the incredibly
annoying people who argue against building infrastructure because they
can't immediately use it themselves to go shopping groceries, and they need
a water melon that's soft, but not too soft, and ...  you get the idea.

| So, could you please tell me how I turn a WinMain function in somebody
| else's code into a LibMain function?

(make-library-entry-point <function>)

| Do you have any idea what I'm talking about?

no.  why the hell should I?  you don't matter.  Windows doesn't matter.

| Can you do more than attempt to divert this thread into another subject?

oh, like it's _you_ who understand the _real_ issue?  I see.  HAHAHAHA!!

| It's obviously one that you're good at discussing, as you've done little
| here but rant about Bill Gates.

you have already proved beyond any possible doubt that you don't get any
message but your own, but I regret that I have given you an opportunity to
think you have.

if DUI is "Driving Under the Influence"
then GUI must be "Graphics Under the Influence"