Subject: Re: Off topic: FSF, Emacs and XEmacs (was Re: help! absolute beginner)
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 1998/12/17
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* (Christopher R. Barry)
| I guess you think using "Stallmacs" to refer the the FSF maintained
| version of Emacs is somehow deragatory, and I didn't know that you would
| take it in that sense, because I didn't mean to attack it or anything.

  then why not call it by its name?  notice that the problems started when
  the XEmacs crowd called their Emacs version just that.  users everywhere
  have serious problems talking about Emacs as opposed to XEmacs because of
  _their_ name.  so those who think XEmacs is entitled to usurp the name
  space choose some other means to refer to Emacs, such as "Stallmacs",
  which I cannot fathom how you can even believe is _not_ derogatory --
  think about how you came up with it, why you cannot call Emacs by its
  name, and what the real problem is.  OK?

  and if you know about the history of XEmacs and Emacs at all, you would
  _know_ that the stupid name collision is one of the contentious points.
  and of course I assume that people aren't completely ignorant when they
  ask about contentious issues.

| I'm not really an XEmacs proponent.

  well, _excuse_ me for thinking that one looks, walks, and quacks like a
  stupid XEmacs proponent is one.  my patience with that kind was exhausted
  years ago.  there's a reason I don't talk about XEmacs.  deal with it.

| I have both ACL 5.0 and CMUCL on my machine here, and (until very
| recently) I used ACL 5.0 99% of the time. I'm now using CMUCL slightly
| more, but have yet to really form any opinions about really favoring one
| over the other. And if I did, and said that I say, like CMUCL more, but
| not specifically downtalked ACL 5, and also wanted your opinion as
| someone that has worked with some of the ACL 5 sources, would that have
| also made your blood boil?

  if you found cause to use a derogatory name for either of them, sure.
  incidentally, I'm not aware of any comparable hostility between ACL and
  CMUCL that you seem to take for granted or ignore between Emacs and
  XEmacs -- you just _can't_ compare two things without understanding
  whether they have similar natures at all.

  BTW, XEmacs has another good thing going for it that I forgot besides
  getting MULE right (that is, the ability to compile without it): it is
  not scheduled for conversion to GUILE, which I consider to be another
  serious mistake in the FSF camp.  all the language version chaos that
  reigns in Emacs Lisp and especially between XEmacs Lisp and Emacs Lisp is
  not getting any better with a language that has serious growth problems
  built into it.  my first reason for wanting a Common Lisp Emacs was that
  it would have a stable language underneath it.  trying to keep a lot of
  Emacs customization working is a lot more work than it should be, and
  I'll wager a bet that this is _because_ it is free software and there
  aren't very many reasons to do the boring work of maintaining a stable
  and a development release and actual specifications people can trust.

  Attention, Republican members of the House Judiciary Committee!  We have
  intercepted a coded transmission from Bill Clinton to Saddam Hussein that
  puts your life in jeopardy.  Clinton is prepared to cease fire if all of
  you are killed by Iraqi terrorists, whom he won't prosecute.  Be warned!