From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 1999/10/29
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Janos Blazi
| You always attribute the worst possible sense tp my words and the you
| respond with personal attacks.

  _this_ is not only a personal attack, it is completely unwarranted and
  falls squarely in the pattern you have established: generalizations that
  you post without any backing whatsoever, apart from your opinionating.
| You said my first letter was stupid and boring.

  please stop lying about what's in the public record.  I did not say that.
  if you can't differentiate between what you remember and what somebody
  actually said, at least be smart and honest enough to admit it to
  yourself -- that way you won't cause any hostility with people whom you
  malign with your careless lies.

| And I received personal attacks (like the question whether I smoked
| (drugs I supposed)).

  not from me you didn't.  please do not lie, misrepresent, extrapolate,
  exaggarete, defame, or juxtapose information such that false, unwarranted
  conclusions are easier to make than warranted conclusions.  please learn
  to exercise some precision in your communication.  your hostility to my
  comments have that one source: I'm pointing out to you that you are full
  of vague, denigratory statements that are very hard to counter because
  they are principally devoid of counterable contents.

| When I visited the university bookshop in my own town and there was only one
| book on LISP and when after that I visited the big Harry Deutsch university
| bookshop in Frankfurt and I found NOT A SINGLE VOLUME on LISP there, I new
| that something must have gone wrong with LISP. And now I have found out the
| reason.

  another conclusion is that something has gone wrong with the bookstores.

  such is far more likely to be relevant, true, and also changeable (you
  simply ask them to order books and stir interest in Lisp for them) than
  that something has gone wrong with Lisp.  your decision to conclude that
  something _must_ (no less!) have gone wrong with Lisp is what I challenge
  and you continue to refuse to recognize this challenge.  I assume that is
  because you are completely unaware that you made that assumption to begin
  with, as you have been visibly unaware of all of your other assumptions
  that take the form of broad, unbacked generalizations.  I find your lack
  of precision and unwillingness to be honest quite annoying.  I'm sure you
  are not used to precision or you would not respond with such hostility.

| I indeed questioned an attitude but I had not launched any personal
| attacks.  Never. There is absolutely no excuse to respond with such.
| There is no excuse to use rude language ever.

  amazing.  YOU LIE ABOUT WHAT I SAY, and you exaggerate by using such
  stupid terms as "always" and try to cast a characterization on me, too,
  as you have on so many else, including COBOL programmers and abstract
  thinkers.  you have indeed engaged in offensive communication and you
  continue even in the messages where you deny it.  and now rude language
  is your beef.  my god, what's next?  you're all form and no contents!

  this is so typical of people who think something is wrong with Lisp.  of
  course, their lack of introspection forbids them from seeing anything
  that causes them to mistakenly assume that what they see _must_ (sic!) be
  the only possible reason.  I'm sorry, but I have a hard time dealing with
  people who make up their mind and then want the world to evolve around
  them, only to label anyone who tells them the world isn't so are rude to
  their poor little preconceptions.

| I have not responded to you as I am a very peaceful man and I only wanted
| to be told about the current state of affaires.

  then stop lying and misrepresenting others, stop presenting as facts that
  which is only conjecture on your part, and stop generalizing about that
  which you do not know, and you will _learn_ from others, if that is your
  true desire, which I don't think it is: you are most likely here to get
  an excuse not to use Lisp, as suggested by every negative conclusion you
  make.  your incessant focus on the negative is what made your notes stand
  out to begin with.  just stop the negative trend in your _own_ head, and
  the world will suddenly look as bright as it actually is, to you, too.

  Lisp survives because Lisp people are able to see beyond mistaken German
  bookstores.  Lisp can die _only_ to the extent that people are willing to
  blame it for something else that goes wrong in its vicinity.  and Janos
  Blazi is a serious hazard to Lisp in that regard, because Lisp gets _all_
  the blame when just about anything negative happens to him.

  this is what's wrong with the Lisp world, and how to fix it: just get rid
  of the people who post negative drivel and find whoever wants to learn
  and take care of them and nuture them, one by one.  the Lisp community is
  good at nurturing.  it isn't good at dealing with crybabies.  I don't
  think this is a problem for anybody but the crybabies.

  Janos, you should note that I just answered a guy's questions to his full
  satisfaction, and that was because he wanted to solve a problem worth
  solving.  you don't.  you're whining and crying.  I think you should go
  away, so this newsgroup and every other newsgroup and community can have
  room for positive, constructive people who want to do something fun and
  enjoyable with their lives.  I'm seriouly upset with people like you,
  because for every negative, lie, misrepresentation, or false accusation
  posted in public, a lot of time is spent everywhere in trying to fix it
  by correcting such mistakes.  that you consider it rude to ask you to go
  away and get upset is the least of my problems.  at least if you do, I
  won't have to deal with a continued stream of negative drivel from you.