Subject: Re: C# is not Dylan (was: Re: C# : The new language from M$)
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 2000/07/02
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp,comp.lang.dylan
Message-ID: <>

* "Scott McKay" <>
| Perhaps you missed the "if" in that sentence?
| If you took the time to actually learn something about ...

  I don't really think I "miss" what you communicate with your "if"s.
  I perceive your intentions _very_ well, actually: You're here to
  show off your _personal_ superiority to anyone who dares criticize
  Dylan, and especially its syntax.  By the insulted tone of your
  messages and your constant insults hurled towards me, it is clear
  that you have failed to deal with public comments in a public way,
  but instead prefer to make this a personal issue.  Coupled with your
  lack of observation skills is your inability to deal with what
  people are actually saying in preference to arguing against
  incredibly cheap strawman arguments.  This imparts an impression of
  a _stale_ intellect in need of self-defense at the slightest hint of
  serious criticism.  I don't understand what you think you could
  possibly _gain_ by this, however, but I'm sure _you_ think Dylan
  will go out of this stupid activity of yours as a clear-cut winner.
  Maybe it's time to re-evaluate your strategy?  Maybe you just ought
  to deal with the fact that not everybody shares your pathetically
  unenlightened (why else resort to the stupidity I have spared you
  from quoting in its entirety above) view on syntax?

| I find it a sign of general lack of insight that people think that
| syntax in most languages is the tough thing, because it isn't.

  I quite agree -- it isn't, but nobody ever said anything about it
  being "the tough thing", dude, so where _did_ you get that cheap
  straman argument?  (Does it feel good to knock down strawman
  arguments, or does it leave you with an empty feeling inside which
  fits the sheer lack of intellectual accomplishment?  Feel free to
  elaborate on your arrogance and inability to read what people
  actually write to defend yourself.)  If you aren't bright enough to
  understand that objection to or love of syntax is not even related
  to the effort required to learn or use the language, I have no
  resepct for the rest of your similarly shallow opinions.

  _If_ you took the time to read what people say instead of believing
  they said what you can most easily argue (such as it is) against,
  you might actually learn something, including differences in what
  people prioritize and value, but I get the impression that it's been
  a while since you learned anything from anyone other than yourself,
  and I certainly won't waste any more of my time on you when you are
  so demonstrably devoid of ability to deal with criticism.

| >  Finally, a twist on the old "beware of programmers with screwdrivers":
| >  Beware of programming language designers who show disdain for syntax.
| I have seen evidence of "disdain for syntax".

  Precisely.  If you "missed" a "no" in there, perhaps you are going
  to deny that you wrote "syntax is trivial, get over it", too?

| Well, except from you, who evidently could not care less for the
| genuine effort spent making Dylan's infix syntax reasonable.

  So you really are _personally_ offended, now, huh?  Geez, get over
  yourself.  If you can't deal with negative comments on your work in
  public, it would be a good thing for you to try to avoid defending
  _yourself_.  But why spend so much _genuine effort_ at something
  that you claim is _trivial_ towards those who _don't_ like it?  Just
  how do you propose that I reconcile your clear disdain for syntaxes
  (other than your own) with that whining about respecting your work?

  I don't judge your efforts, dude, I judge the results, from a number
  of aspects and values and premises of my own.  You do not seem to
  have any respect for any such other than precisely _your_ own, which
  means that communication with you is a waste of time, just like
  Dylan is a waste of time, from my point of view.  At this point, I
  think I have to tell you that you are free to be personally insulted
  by my opinion, as well as free to act _professionally_ about a
  difference in opinion that does not concern you personally at all.

  Good luck with you language and your syntax and your efforts.  Let's
  just hope you do a better job communicating with someone who cares
  what you think, _professionally_.

  If this is not what you expected, please alter your expectations.