From ... From: Erik Naggum Subject: Re: Allegro compilation warnings Date: 2000/10/19 Message-ID: <3180961031624311@naggum.net> X-Deja-AN: 683447486 References: <3180342535878529@naggum.net> mail-copies-to: never Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@eunet.no X-Trace: oslo-nntp.eunet.no 971972551 11839 195.0.192.66 (19 Oct 2000 16:22:31 GMT) Organization: Naggum Software; vox: +47 800 35477; gsm: +47 93 256 360; fax: +47 93 270 868; http://naggum.no; http://naggum.net User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) Emacs/20.7 Mime-Version: 1.0 NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Oct 2000 16:22:31 GMT Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp * mario@cs.uu.nl (Mario Frasca) | as I told you, I'm working on code which has been developed by someone | else. I am trying to have it automatically compiled, but there were | some circular dependencies in the sources, so I had to move some | functions from one file to an other and I have 'announced' the | dependencies in a set of require clauses at the beginning of each | file, so that I can be satisfied of working with these sources. The way the system was compiled should be dug up. My hunch is it was all loaded in as source, and then compiled. You can very easily do that yourself, and it's much, much easier than what you've been doing so far. | for some reasons, I don't manage to understand all this apparent | nonsense about the current package, since which is the current | package at a certain point in my sources is not defined statically | but dynamically and I'm not -yet- used to it. Well, first you dispense with the opiniated bullshit that it's "apparent nonsense". To see why, judge how likely it is that you listen to what I said after I branded your opinion that way first. If you're really smart, it didn't affect you at all, figuring that I had my reasons to this very specific incident and that you could understand them -- the converse is not quite true for your reaction since it is not specific to anything anyone but you can determine. You continue to display irrational elements in your behavior towards the code you're working on. Just what does it take to make you snap into a more rational approach? The current package is a read-time concept. When Common Lisp loads a file, it reads one expression at a time, then evaluates it. If that expression changes something in the global environment, it is available for the next expression to use. The in-package macro sets *package* to the package named by its argument for the duration of the file as load creates a binding of *package* that is unwound when the file terminates. The current package is naturally _also_ a run-time concept, but it affects only functions that intern symbols in the current package, among them load and read, in addition to the actual function intern. If you don't use these functions in your own code, you don't have to worry about the current package at run-time, as all the symbols you need were interned at read-time. Compilation of the files loaded does not alter these facts, as the file compiler's responsibility is to ensure that the semantics of loading the file is retained. | references to a language I understand are a means to understand a | language I don't yet know well enough to express the things I want | to express. How did you learn your first language? Why was that such a lousy experience that everything must now be done relative to what you first learned? _If_ it was such a lousy experience, I'm loathe to believe that you know your first language all that well. If you had no problems at all learning your first language, why not repeat the success? Either way, to base learning a new language on old stuff seems like a plan to lose. Part of learning that first language was to learn to _think_ in that language. If you don't learn to _think_ in the next language you set out to "learn", you won't ever manage to get your head around its concepts. That means what is called a "suspension of disbelief" in reading normal literature, i.e., the willingness to enter the universe of the book on its own premises. If you can't do _that_ successfully, you won't ever make a good programmer in any language. And how come you had the patience to wait until you did know the first language well enough before you attempted something, but now you don't have that patience? Or _didn't_ you have that patience to begin with? A lot of people don't really possess the tinest shred of the personal quality of real patience that is required to be good at _anything_, least of all precision crafts such as programming or, say, target shooting (which I recently picked up because I run out of patience with computer programming at times :). | If I was developing from scratch, I would use those parts of the | language I know, and study the ones I come across as I need them. Why is this a bad approach if you are not developing from scratch? | having to modify a complex interaction of poorly written sources is | as if you had to modify a bad Albanian text into a good Albanian | piece of poetry, you allow me to think in Italian while studing the | subtelties of that language? thanks. I don't believe you really understand what it means to think in a programming language, nor have the patience to acquire that skill, so I'll just give up now. | please, don't speak M$ to me. if you know it, you avoid it. I "speak M$" to you? Geez. How the hell is it possible _not_ to do something wrong to you, Mario Frasca? I don't have the time to pander to someone whose sensibilities are so erratically tuned and who displays such a staggering lack of _reqiured_ patience. I would really suggest you do something other than programming computers. #:Erik -- I agree with everything you say, but I would attack to death your right to say it. -- Tom Stoppard