Subject: Re: corba or sockets?
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 07 Nov 2000 02:24:18 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Jon S Anthony <>
| I'm unclear on how you can get this out of what I wrote:

  Of course you are unclear on that, as you _still_ defend yourself.
  What makes you think I got it out what you _quote_ that you wrote?
  Why quote it?  To what end is that a rational course of action?  It
  is obviously rational in a self-defense position, but I have a hard
  time imagining any other rational explanations for this.

| I'm not defending _anything_, much less myself, or my choices.

  Jon, please.  You're doing it right there.  Just observe yourself.

| I would seriously consider how to go about changing to the proposed
| alternative.  I have already stated so in not so many words.  Why do
| have such a difficult time believing this?

  Because you reject everything I say before you understand it.  I'm
  sure you think you've been where I've been so you don't need to
  listen to what I say because you think you already know what I'm
  saying, but that is why I have taken this to a meta-discussion.  You
  need to stop thinking you know your opponent's position and you very
  much need to stop defending your own position and especially yourself
  -- otherwise you have no chance of _ever_ listening.  If you don't
  believe that this is evident in your behavior, at least _LISTEN_ to
  the fact that someone reads you that way.  Wonder why, at least,
  don't just reject it immediately because you don't understand it,
  which is exactly what you do with the technical questions, as well.

| > What would happen if this discussion should prove that CORBA would
| > have been a good choice for me?
| I don't know and I don't care.

  You really do have a hard time in general, don't you, not just with
  this discussion?  I was trying to strike a balance by asking that
  question both ways.  You seem to want this balance when you need to
  strike back, but when the balance is there, you reject it.  This is
  _not_ a good sign of mental health, Jon.  Stop defending yourself.
  You are _not_ under attack, OK?

| > What _is_ clear to me now is that you have zero respect for other
| > people and differing opinions regardless of how they arrived at them,
| Incorrect.

  It is _incorrect_ that that is clear to me?  *boggle*  How the fuck
  do you _know_ what is clear to me or not?  You _disagree_, Jon.  If
  you might begin to understand that your _disagreement_ in conclusion
  is something very different from terming somebody else's conclusions
  from all the available evidence to _them_ as "incorrect", you might
  have something to say worth listening to, but as long as you mix up
  _correctness_ with people's opinions and conclusions, you're just
  too stupid to waste any time on.  I'm trying very hard to make you
  understand that you do something here that tells me that what you
  have come to conclude is probably not trustworthy at all, and you
  _should_ take that as a sign that you need to do something different
  to increase that trustworthiness, not work very hard to desroy any
  remains of it.

| I think this is sound advice and clearly goes both ways.

  Your need to make it apply back to me is a very good indicator of a
  personality in need of defending itself, _especially_ when you
  reject when others hand you a "goes both ways" just a few paragraphs
  back.  Ask just about any shrink or psychologist about this if you
  have trouble understanding it.  I'm not going to elaborate, as you
  don't really _listen_ to what I tell you, no matter what I say.
  People who hold up a mirror and say "clearly goes both ways" have
  shut down the prerequisite brain activity to listen long ago.

| I respond to clearly stated positions that take into account all
| sides of an argument.

  Then you are clearly delusional, too, and your conclusions must be
  treated in accordance with such an assessment of your ability to
  observer yourself in action.  This doesn't make CORBA bad, it only
  means that your decision to use it is completely worthless as any
  form of testimony to its usefulness or the soundness of your choice.

| I don't think that's asking for too much - do you?

  I think if you didn't demand if others, but simply followed it, it
  would be perfectly OK.  As far as I know, I already comply, and you
  are not giving me any indication of _where_ I'm not, either, just
  this weak implication that I'm not, which just doesn't hold water.

  I'm through with you, Jon.  Let me know when you are willing to
  listen to what people who disagree with you are telling you.  I
  don't trust people who have made up their mind so hard it must be
  cracked before it can re-examine its path to its conclusions.

  Does anyone remember where I parked Air Force One?
                                   -- George W. Bush