Subject: Re: ACL 6.0 Trial Edition ships with non ANSI reader behavior.
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 2000/11/23
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Tim Bradshaw <>
| And that once one of these lesser systems `takes hold' in a project,
| it's not necessarily the case that the conformant system offers a huge
| advantage *for that project*, even if it's better in some overall
| sense that you can use it in all projects.

  Worse than this, it would probably be easier for the bean-counters
  among us to favor adding code to the homegrown system at each and
  every step than to consider what all those steps would cost.

| Anyway, I'm not trying to win any battles here...

  I think we're looking at the threshold-crossing problem.  How much do
  you really _have_ to commit to in order to make a conforming Common
  Lisp your development system of choice?  I think Franz Inc are doing a
  world of wonder at the high end of the market, and I don't really see
  the huge problems with licensing or pricing at that end, and I think
  they are doing a marvelous job in the very low end of the market, that
  of Trial editions (barring that default Modern cruft, obviously), but
  going from "Hey, wow, this is _cool_!" to "One Allegro CL Enterprise
  development license and server license to go, please" is amazingly far
  and probably so far that any good engineer can figure out a much less
  expensive way to make _each_ step on his way, but I'm not convinced
  that he woulud end up spending any less real money in the end -- which
  leads us to the other problem -- Franz Inc wants too much up front in
  the default arrangement.  (This can be negotiated away, of course, but
  you have to have enough chutzpah/gall/guts/balls/etc to red-line large
  portions of a fairly strict license and the message I get from people
  is that they are _not_ thrilled to have to do this.)

  What worries me most about all of this is the _combined_ impression of
  their not caring _that_ much about the specification of ANSI Common
  Lisp, which means that programmers can no longer use the standard
  reference works or the standard textbooks, they can no longer just
  plug into the general Common Lisp community, use open source, etc, and
  the tendency towards specialization of their market to committed, very
  large-scale projects.  I feel _myself_ falling outside their markets.

  Solution to U.S. Presidential Election Crisis 2000:
    Let Texas secede from the Union and elect George W. Bush their
    very first President.  All parties, states would rejoice.