Subject: Re: the naggum-mine claims another victim
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 11 Dec 2000 03:00:03 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Tom Breton <>
| Yes, adds to it, and adds greatly to a hostile atmosphere.

  No, the hostile atmosphere is not caused by me in _any_ way.  I do not
  address the "atmosphere", but individual people and individual actions
  of these people.  The people who address the atmosphere and who attack
  people are Marcus G. Daniels, Raffael Cavallaro, Tom Breton, and such
  random vermin as Israel Thomas.  I am not responsible, nor could I
  ever be, for the kind of articles you USENET terrorists post.  You
  must grow up to take responsibility for your own actions.  You cannot
  blame anyone else for what you do.  The kind of provocation you can
  claim just "happen" to you in real life does not happen in a written
  medium.  You have the option of refraining from responding, of
  delaying your response until you calm down, of responding in ways that
  reflect who you want to be, option you do not have in a bar brawl,
  say, because of the physical and immediate nature of the conflict.  If
  you do not understand this, as I suspect you guys never will, neither
  will you understand your own role in perpetuating the hostilities like
  the kinds of apes that form street gangs and fight over their honor.

  Now, the most interesting thing here is how the USENET terrorists Tom
  Breton, Marcus G. Deniels, Raffael Cavallaro and such random vermin as
  Israel Thomas defend their evil.  They do not address actions in a way
  that it is possible to change anything and have their evil stop.  It
  has always been inordinately simple and straight-forward to stop my
  criticism, but it amazes me that the moron terrorists do not grasp it.
  Do not post _your_ personal attacks.  I don't attack out of the blue.
  I never have and I never will.  People who want to push my buttons
  know exactly what to do, and I'm accused of being very predictable by
  those who try, such as Marcus G. Deniels, who does it for his own
  insane and perverse "enjoyment".  You can't accuse people of being
  predictable and at the same time claim that they do something without
  reason.  But Marcus G. Daniels is the kind of person who does that.
  Tom Breton is the kind of person who does that.  Raffael Cavallaro is
  the kind of person who does that.  Take a good, close look at the
  first article that leaking douchebag Israel Thomas ever posted to
  comp.lang.lisp and you must _be_ Tom Breton if you do not understand
  what kind of personality we are dealing with in that instance.  I
  cannot _possibly_ be responsible for such first attacks on me.  I have
  no _possible_ way of preventing it, modifying it, _anything_.  Only a
  criminally nsane person like Tom Breton could even _think_ of blaming
  me for that first hostile article.  The hostile atmosphere was and is
  the responsibility of people like Marcus G. Daniels, who thrive on
  making other people hate and disrespect who he hates and disrespects.
  His _goal_ is to create hostile atmospheres where some people are
  attacked.  Israel Thomas is the evidence that he succeeds.  That Tom
  Breton rears his ugly head and Raffael Cavallaro thinks it's OK to
  come back with more of his unique hostility is the fault of people who
  try to work the forum up to hate and disrespect people.  The moral
  culpability lies with such instigators, and the morons who respond,
  that is, pathetic shit-for-brains like Israel Thomas, probably have no
  mental capacity to understand how they got into their emotional state
  to begin with.  If they did, they would be ashamed of it and stop it.

  The people who work up the hostile atmosphere are those who keep it up
  after every conceivable reason for doing so is gone.  I have made it
  very, very clear that people have an opportunity to do something else.
  I am explicit about it in every single conflict.  People like Tom
  Breton do not understand this, not because they distrust _me_, but
  because they distrust _themselves_.  They are are hateful, revengeful,
  and harbor a certainty about their emotional prejudices that defines
  madness and insanity.  On top of it, they are massively uintelligent
  under pressure, so any ability they would otherwise be able to invoke
  to change their minds is disconnected.  Such people usually grow up to
  be criminals, gang members, rapists, football hooligans, wife beaters,
  street protesters who destroy property in blind rage, etc.  The very
  important distinction between normal people and such anti-social scum
  is that only by thinking do they refrain from violence and other forms
  of disrespect for other people and their property, so when they lose
  their ability to think, nothing keeps them back, anymore.  Normally
  matured and socially responsible people actually have an _emotional_
  restriction against violence and injustice and disrespect for people
  and property.  It's what we call _conscience_.  The kinds of people
  who have to keep thinking in order to stop themselves from harming
  others do not actually _have_ a conscience.  If you have to _think_
  about whether to hit somebody when verbally provoked, you _will_ hit
  when you feel sufficiently provoked.  If your emotional response is
  _not_ to hit, you don't have to think about it.  Pretty simple, yet
  overlooked by people who normally believe that thinking is much more
  important than feeling.  Such people talk about _controlling_ one's
  emotions.  I submit that the normal, healthy, mature human being does
  not _have_ feelings that need to be controlled.  Those who control
  their emotions through conscious processes actually _fear_ their own
  emotions and will respond with extreme _hostility_ to people who argue
  that no such control is necessary if you are good person.  That is why
  Tom Breton's first inclination is to distrust.

| Why should anybody else believe that?

  Distrust without due cause is a symptom of destructive personalities.

| You seem to be trying hard not to understand the point.  You assert
| several times that Erik's doing good, when IMO it's patently obvious
| he is doing great harm.  I can't break thru a wall of denial like that.

  No, just like the facts cannot be broken through by your distrust.

  The day you realize that you _may_ be wrong is the day you have a new
  hope of becoming an honest human being.  Until then, the "wall of
  denial" sadly applies to he who erects it, not he who identifies it.

| But the situation in cll is a constant, perpetual thing.

  I think we need to keep this statement very clearly in mind.  This is
  how Tom Breton sees the situation.  Marcus G. Daniels has a similarly
  deranged and distorted view of both me and the newsgroup.  These guys
  do not see what they do not want to see.  We have a long-term resident
  in comp.lang.lisp who also expressed exactly similar attitudes some
  time ago, but I was deeply impressed when he understood that he did
  harbor an image of me that prevented him from seeing what actually
  happened, and simply stopped doing it.  That has happened to a dozen
  people over the past two dozen years

| And so of course it sometimes erupts, because people just get tired of
| this constant garbage and shoot back.  And I certainly can't blame
| them.

  That's surprisingly honest of you, and we need to keep this in mind as
  a literal statement of how you think and feel, too.  No, _you_ most
  certainly can't "blame" the right person for his actions.  Everybody
  else should, and probably do.  The idea that provocation is a license
  to initiate violence is held only by people who _want_ a license from
  somebody else to initiate violence.  The idea that it is OK to open
  fire on somebody (the degree of violence is determined not by the
  principle but by the "provocation") you don't like simply because you
  claim to be "provoked" is proof of a personality that is a threat to
  public safety.  Tom Breton has a criminal mind with no concept of
  justice and fairness.  One must expect him, like Marcus G. Daniels, to
  commit acts of actual physical destruction because of his _admitted_
  inability to take responsibility for his own actions and his
  extraordinary willingness to exonerate and excuse others when they
  attack a target he harbors hatred and emotional prejudice towards.
  Such is behavior and thinking we find in street thugs and mobsters,
  but such people are also allowed on USENET.  The results are what we
  see from Tom Breton, Raffael Cavallaro, and Marcus G. Daniels, and the
  overall result is that random vermin like Isreal Thomas feel that is
  OK to post their braindamaged shit and to keep feeling enraged despite
  absence of anything concrete that could explain it.  Irrational and
  destructive minds like that need the Marcus G. Danielsses of the world
  to feel OK, and Tom Breton and Raffael Cavallaro keep them whipped up
  in that anti-intelligent, anti-justice, anti-rational, anti-ethical
  emotional state.  If these emotionally disturbed lunatics could snap
  out of it and start to _think_, there wouldn't be any hostility, and
  the Marcus G. Danielses of the world would again become invisible.

  "When you are having a bad day and it seems like everybody is trying
   to piss you off, remember that it takes 42 muscles to produce a
   frown, but only 4 muscles to work the trigger of a good sniper rifle."
								-- Unknown