Subject: Re: case-sensitivity and identifiers (was Re: Wide character implementation)
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: Tue, 26 Mar 2002 13:29:15 GMT
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Matthias Blume <>
| I do understand what you are trying to get at with you distinction
| between "intrinsic" and "incidental".  However, I think that this very
| distinction itself is in the "incidental" category.

  Up-casing all letters in a heading is clearly incidental.  Capitalization
  of each non-preposition in a title ic clearly incidental.  Capitalization
  of the sentence-initial word is clearly incidental.  Capitalization of
  proper names is perhaps intrinsic, in which case information should not
  be lost when you write "Smith said ..." and later change it to "After a
  brief pause, Smith said ...", should be recoverable from titles and
  headlines, and should therefore be regarded as information that
  incidental capitalization actually _destroys_.  If you think intrinsic
  capitalization is so important, you would have objected to the incidental
  capitalization or upcasing of words because of their information loss.
  You do not, so I conclude that you are completely _unconcerned_ with this
  loss of information from incidental capitalization, and therefore do
  _not_ regard intrinsic capitalization as important.

| It is absolutely not clear where to draw the line between "intrinsic"
| features of spelling and "incidental" ones.

  It appears that you think that intrinsic-p = (complement incidental-p).
  This is unwarrented, and most of your argumentation just falls to pieces
  because you believe this and argue argainst a negative.

| Why single out the sentence-initial capitalization rule?  Why not also
| get rid of repeated consonants?

  What the fuck are you talking about?  Geez, are you for real?

| At least in some languages, the rules about those are just as
| "incidental" as the capitalization rules.

  Whnat _are_ you unable to deal with?

| What you are trying to do is separate content and form.  I wish you good
| luck in this endeavor, but also predict that it is doomed from the
| beginning.

  Look, you are so stupid that this is getting seriously boring: The whole
  context of the discussion is what if we could design things all over?
  Your insipid complaints and your moronic attitude problems are hostile.

| By the way, I assume that the abuse that you heap on people when you get
| into one of your famous tirades is "incidental"...

  In your case, stupidity and hostility seem to be intrinsic.  Just THINK,
  and you will find a nicer side of me.  Be an annoying asshole, and you
  find me unpleasant.  It really is that simple.  Some people _are_ no more
  than annoying assholes and think it is my fault.  This is not so, but it
  sure seem to make annoying assholes happier to think it is.  This is how
  they remain annoying assholes.

  In a fight against something, the fight has value, victory has none.
  In a fight for something, the fight is a loss, victory merely relief.