Subject: Re: LISP - an excercise for experts?
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 01 Sep 2002 22:33:12 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* "Coby Beck" <>
| If I did I would.

  Then do you not voice your supprot for his current behavior by attacking
  those who criticize it.  Or do it by mail so you do not aggravate people by
  criticizing the critics just because you feel holier than everybody else.

| I do not understand people who are so eager to call others idiots and
| incompetents.

  Yes, you do, you only choose to do so on different occasions.  You go out of
  your way to accuse those who do something you do not like of ill will and
  hostility when nonesuch exists and you exacerbate every conflict situation
  by attacking those who defend something, making it impossible to establish
  better relations and to send the proper signals to the troublemakers, on
  whose side you have consistently placed yourself because you hate people who
  call others idiots and incompetents so much that you just have to speak up
  and make even more trouble.

| Actually, I do understand it, I just think it is an extremely negative part
| of human nature rooted in weakness and cruelty.

  Yet you prefer to engage in exactly the same tactics against those you think
  deserve it over doing something constructive.  If you do not understand
  this, you are an even less palatable hypocrite than I already think you are.

| It is that part I detest so much in the academic world, the glee people take
| in belittling and humiliating others and the false comfort and pride they
| take in being accepted and praised by their community.

  Ah.  You are the Revenger against ills that do not exist but which arise out
  of your hypersensitivity towards past suffering.  Your detesting something
  does not make it come into being.  People who are emotionally screwed-up
  tend to see threats and dangers that are not there because they are reminded
  of what happened to them in the past and react to their memories, not to the
  reality in which they actually live.  It seems that you are reminded of what
  you detest so much every time someone speaks up against the /real/ idiots in
  the world because some /non-idiots/ were unfairly harrassed in your past, and
  my guess is that that person was yourself.  So instead of just letting people
  speak up against the obnoxious idiots, you sit on your hands until someone
  speaks up and then you attack that person, instead, making the idiots more
  welcome and destructive because they have a "supporter" of their cause.

  Please realize that just because /you/ feel better after elevating yourself
  above those who criticize others, you have not actually improved anything by
  criticizing them in worse manners.  Your desire to tell people how bad they
  are reflect on your own personality more than anything else.  Other people
  criticize people for what they /do/ and /stop/ when the actions improve, but
  you choose to impute ill will and evil intentions to people on a scale that
  is truly evil because you harbor ill will against people long after you were
  offended based on your /own/ moralistic view of /them/ beyond what you think
  they have done.  You make the evil mistake of thinking you can do any harm
  you want to others because of your impression of them.  Lynch mobs had that
  same warped ethics that anything goes as long as you are insanely furious
  enough about something.  And you see your evil in others when they simply
  criticize others for actions that are /actually/ bad.  Your own reprehensible
  character speaks up against an evil that you should seek to correct primarily
  in yourself and keep out of public view.

| Putting other people down is never about anything accept trying to elevate
| your own self image.

  Your rebellion against this entails putting other people down.  You are very
  obviously on a mission to elevate your self-image when you detest ills that
  you impute to others and speak up to criticize what is not actually there.

| Well, that is off on a bit of a tangent, sorry (and kind of preachy, looking
| back over it) but it is true, so I will leave it as is.

  Your lack of insight is alarming.  You do not see the similiarity of yourself
  to that which you detest.  You have even become what you detest in others
  when you work so hard to put others down for what you believe is putting
  down, but which is far more honest and less sinister on the part of those
  /you/ unfairly blame for evils they have not committed.  A mere irritation
  with the presistency of obnoxious lunatics you interpret as an academic
  put-down intended to elevate the critic.

  You clearly have issues, my hypercritical friend, but this is not the forum
  to act on them, or even discuss them.

| I think dialogue with ilias could have been salvaged with a few less people
| so eager to be rude about it.

  Then engage in that instead of your standard preaching against those who
  speak up against the things /they/ do not like when you do that yourself for
  thing /you/ do not like.  Do what you think is right if you desire to speak
  up against those who do something you think needs to be criticized.  This
  becomes more and more important the more you criticize criticism over
  actions.  You attempt, in effect, to curb people's ability to criticize what
  they do not like while you reserve that right to yourself.  This is a symptom
  of a troubled soul.  Please bother someone else someplace else.  That same
  advice goes to the target of the criticism you scolded.  You two have more
  in common than you like in that regard, too. 

Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.