Subject: Re: is it ok if I quote?
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 20 Sep 2002 18:42:49 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* quasi <>
| My "hope" indicates that as what they have said already can be found at
| and for that
| reason they would not mind if I put it on my page too.  Please note the
| "quote" part too.  Only today I uploaded the page and wanted the same
| fellers who provided me with information to see it and tell me if they
| wanted nothing to do with it.  If I did not upload they would not have any
| idea as to what/how I would use their words.  That is why I first uploaded
| and then asked for permission.

  You have not actually asked for permission.  You should have /mailed/ them.
  Permission is what you get before you do something.  Forgiveness is what you
  get afterwards.  You cannot get permission after the fact.

| This is really poor.  First I spent the morning in putting up the page which
| is BTW not for *my* personal use and then you come and bite my head off.
| The only reason I put it up was that somebody may find it useful.  Not
| everyone has the luck to be born with enormous brains and to be part of
| large international committees and contribute significantly.  However small
| my contribution, and it is my first, it is still a contribution.

  All this emotional crap because you have to defend yourself when you should
  simply have realized that you should ask for permission by mail.  Sheesh.

| Had you censured me for something which I have done *wrong*, I would have
| been happy to correct it and say thank you - because you are an expert and
| have my respect.  I don't even think you saw my page.  It is of course
| irrelevant & insignificant.

  You /have/ done something wrong, you whining dimwit.  Using other people's
  contributions in a different way than they intended requires permission from
  each and every one of them, and that is permission /before/ you use it.

  Grow the hell up.  When you grow up, you realize that you cannot just take
  things you want to use them however you like.  To be able to take other
  people's contributions and use them however you like, you need to adjust
  what you like to what is permissible under the Fair Use Doctrine.  If you
  have no idea what that is, ask permission always and every time.

  I just asked permission to use a licensed system today that most people
  think is free for the taking, and I got an amazing amount of support and
  help from the developers and maintainers of that system, who also promptly
  waived the licensing fee.  When people see that their rights and property
  arae respected, they tend to welcome you and help you.  When they see that
  other people take them for granted, they tend to get disappointed and feel
  bad about having to make the choice between protecting their property or
  letting you get away with it, neither of which are positive.

  The old adage that it is easier to get forgiveness than to get permission is
  not true in the intellectual property arena.  Some believe it is easier to
  get sued than to get permission, but it is actually the other way around: If
  you ask and you show repsect for the author of something you want to use and
  properly credit, chances are everybody will be happy about it.

  Try to learn something from this instead of defending yourself.

Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.