Subject: Re: Understanding Erik Naggum
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 08 Oct 2002 15:09:22 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* "Coby Beck" <>
| But the undeniable fact (though some may deny it ;) is that his strategy
| results in uneeded, counter-productive garbage.

  That is simply false.  You simply do not see it when it does not develop
  in that direction.  You, too, must feel that that which you do not see,
  cannot exist.

| Erik is firmly convinced he is correct in what he does, no amount of
| debating will change that.

  The evidence is that scores of people come back to me, sometimes years
  after their scolding, and tell me that it was extremely valuable to them,
  albeit painful at the time.  They do not generally post this to the same
  forum so stupid feel-good people can get some counter-information,
  however.  Of the people who have been rebuked for their arrogance or
  ignorance, only a tiny fraction (I keep track: it is about 5%) appear to
  be permanently damaged.  The rest win big, if not there and then, then
  later in life.

  The perhaps most fascinating thing about you feel-good guys is that you
  actually believe that other people are unable to adjust to the feedback
  they receive, probably because you are yourself completely inept at that
  process.  I mean, look at all these morons who return to repeat the same
  stupid, non-working argument that got them into trouble previously.  How
  could I /not/ conclude that these people are permanently dysfunctional
  who cannot even produce variations on their theme.  Other people are not
  as bad as you are, and therefore do not respond the way you do or do not.

| As you have seen, no matter how calm and logical you are, if you don't
| accept his arguments the discussion deteriorates quickly.

  *sigh*  This is the kind of misguided notion that you will keep harping
   on despite the sheer absence of evidence, and when I counter this claim,
   you only think you have proven it.  You feel-good guys are impossible to
   argue with, because disagreement makes you feel not-good and therefore
   you go bananas when I do not accept your version of things, especially
   where your stupid feelings are concerned.  I find it extremely annoying.

| You'll have to be content with expressing your view and recognizing a
| dead end discussion...

  I find you one of the most unspeakably condescending persons I have ever
  had the displeasure of dealing with, Coby Beck.  Your style is to presume
  to speak ex cathedra about someone else, as if you knew them like a
  childhood friend, their parents, or perhaps their shrink.  That you do
  not even understand that this causes people to become angry at you only
  speaks volumes about your inability to feel any actual empathy with other
  people, despite all your self-serving crap about being nice.  You are a
  bad person who has learned, probably the hard way from people realizing
  just what and who you are, that it serves you better to use a more polite
  and nicer language.  It does not take X-ray vision to see through the
  wrapping, but people have to pay attention to what you are actually
  communicating to see how fantastically vile you really are beneath the
  "please, I'm harmless" language.  The worst part is that most people who
  only want others to speak nicely are the same kind of evil people who
  hope that nobody will notice what they really are if they are polite and
  nice to people.  Some /do/ notice, however.

Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.