Subject: Re: OT: Erik Naggum's Long-Windedness (was: (endp lst) or (null lst))
From: Erik Naggum <>
Date: 10 Jan 2003 18:03:22 +0000
Newsgroups: comp.lang.lisp
Message-ID: <>

* Nils Goesche <>
| Look, troll: The last time you posted anything about Lisp here, you
| didn't even understand the point of macros.  How about doing some
| productive work and think about them instead of insulting Lispers
| who are obviously far ahead of your level of understanding?

  "Oleg" is not insulting me.  He is trying to communicate to me that
  he feels a debilitating powerlessness to respond intelligently to
  me.  I can feel his pain.  I have presented him with a model of the
  world with which he cannot begin to grapple, and I present this
  model with such force that he can only feel rage and rebellion; all
  he can do is succumb to a desire to shriek "no!  no!  it isn't so!".

  "Oleg" is not the first person to encounter a text that presents the
  reader with two simultaneous impossibilities: (1) a different view
  to a reality he does not recognize but feels he should, and (2) such
  a powerful model (or set of models) that the reader has two choices:
  (a) to bow to and accept it, or (b) be steamrollered by it.  The
  failure to deal with such impossibilities causes people to take to
  the street to protest against high prices of necessities, to fight
  globalization with riots, etc.  The /right/ way to deal with it is
  of course to challenge the underlying model, but this requires both
  skill and intelligence; hence his profound sense of powerlessness.

  "Oleg" is the kind of person who needs texts that are squarely in
  the mainstream, such that every idea is expressed with few words and
  requires no thought of its readers.  Because he is not intelligent
  enough to recognize when other people are more intelligent than he
  is, he truly believes that those who disagree with his models of the
  world are wrong, or mad.  People of that category have risen to the
  role of president of the nation he posts from and probably lives in.

  The impotent, futile rebellion of "Oleg" exemplifies the inability
  of the illiterate and uneducated to deal with the expression of
  ideas that require a background different from the one they barely
  succeeded in securing.  (Hence his preoccupation with high-school
  drop-outs.)  Now, contrary to what some people believe, you can be
  illiterate and uneducated and still have an academic degree -- the
  system is not bullet-proof in weeding out the useless.  One may hold
  a PhD and yet be culturally illiterate, unable to place information
  in a larger context, much less question it and see it questioned.
  Yet the more "approved" such a maleducated person is by his peers,
  the more he may believe that the /exclusive/ models characteristic
  of those of meager resources is also the fundamentally correct way
  to approach models, i.e., that alternative truths threaten all the
  established truths and that those who offer additional models have
  intended to dethrone the accepted models, violently.

  "Oleg" has also watched me try to shake people out of their sleep,
  so he believes that being brutal is the acceptable method of getting
  somebody's attention.  The problem is that he has yet to figure out
  when to apply this methodology and behaves much like a president of
  one country who has memorized that the military could free a country
  from an oppressor and therefore becomes an oppressor and attacker of
  another country's leader because he is too goddamn stupid to figure
  out the difference between attack and self-defense.  We should
  therefore give people in the formerly great United States of America
  a lot of lee-way at this crucial time in history.  Their bumbling
  moron of a leader has been elected and is supported by the "Oleg"
  category of people.  It is about as fruitful to ask these people to
  get a grip on themselves as it is to ask an illiterate to go read a
  million words before he opens his mouth again.  It may be the best
  advice they could get, but it would take years to do it, and the
  recipient of the advice would not grasp its benevolent nature.

  If the United States of America cleans up the systemic flaws that
  led George W. Bush to the presidency, perhaps its ignorant masses
  will quiet down and once again accept that if somebody does not
  agree with them, it could be because they know better, but as long
  as this dangerous retard is their leader, we should expect that a
  large number of miscreants want to be taken seriously like their
  president, who is one of them.  "Oleg" is just a symptom of a
  tragedy unfolding on continental scale.  His powerlessness and his
  clear expression of /fear/ of something superior to himself that he
  cannot control is simply to be expected.  He posts from Columbia
  University, in New York City, so he is probably still reeling from
  the shock of finally having to deal with reality.

  So be nice to "Oleg" and his like for the time being.  When their
  stupid president has gone to war and their currency has become so
  cheap we Europeans can buy up the whole country instead of paying
  for more members to the European Union, we have to act like true
  gentlemen towards the infirm and the losers in battle.  After all,
  it was we Europeans who subjugated war to the rule of law, which the
  uncultured Americans and their doddering lubbard of a president has
  yet to grasp what means.  An angry American who hurls insults at
  this time is really an incredibly pathetic display of an attempt to
  reach out and ask for approval and validation of his helplessness.
  History will judge "Oleg" and "Dubya" much more harshly than we
  could do here in a newsgroup supposedly about programming languages,
  so the illness should just be allowed to run its course.  With any
  luck, the population of the United States wakes up before the next
  election.  Most of us can wait patiently for them to regain their
  senses, so we should sit by their sickbed rather than beat them up
  when they have violent fits.

  I strongly recommend that whoever can still read this in the heavily
  censored United States try to band together resistance groups so you
  can recuperate some of your nation's glory.  The right to bear arms
  was instituted precisely to protect against wayward presidents and
  politicians who led the country astray.  It is not too late, you can
  still be a civilized country.  If you think other countries need to
  get rid of bad leaders, set an /excellent/ example by removing the
  single most dangerous man on the planet from power, so maybe Saddam
  Hussein will resign nicely because he saw how effectively it worked.

  We can deal with "Oleg" and his like after the important matters.

Erik Naggum, Oslo, Norway

Act from reason, and failure makes you rethink and study harder.
Act from faith, and failure makes you blame someone and push harder.